How does this quote square with the LGT?

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Who Knows
_Emeritus
Posts: 2455
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:09 pm

How does this quote square with the LGT?

Post by _Who Knows »

Here is the quote (Joseph Smith telling us what the angel moroni said to him):

Joseph Smith – History 1:34 wrote:there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang.


Moroni told Joseph Smith that the Book of Mormon told the story of the source of the inhabitants of the american continent. How do the LGT apologists explain this?
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
_Mercury
_Emeritus
Posts: 5545
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:14 pm

Re: How does this quote square with the LGT?

Post by _Mercury »

Who Knows wrote:Here is the quote (Joseph Smith telling us what the angel moroni said to him):

Joseph Smith – History 1:34 wrote:there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang.


Moroni told Joseph Smith that the Book of Mormon told the story of the source of the inhabitants of the american continent. How do the LGT apologists explain this?


Let me channel an apologist:

(I now put my hands on my rear end and begin puffing up my cheeks so as to make my head look bigger)

"Aruighaewwere...donuts...tapirs...martha"

"It seems you are missing the point of this spiritual text. 'This continent' refers to the americas, which means where the americans live, the 'former inhabitants' mentioned. Of course, the inhabitants mean descendants of people from america which describe those individuals who are in the Book of Mormon...duh.

The americas can be many things, as the Book of Mormon describes people leaving to become the islanders of the south pacific. The americas are the people, the american continent where these people dwell."

...context...lying for the lord...peer review....blawaikenodru"

And there we have it. An explanation as good as any mopologist treatise.
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_christopher
_Emeritus
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:17 pm

Re: How does this quote square with the LGT?

Post by _christopher »

VegasRefugee wrote:
Who Knows wrote:Here is the quote (Joseph Smith telling us what the angel moroni said to him):

Joseph Smith – History 1:34 wrote:there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang.


Moroni told Joseph Smith that the Book of Mormon told the story of the source of the inhabitants of the american continent. How do the LGT apologists explain this?


Let me channel an apologist:

(I now put my hands on my rear end and begin puffing up my cheeks so as to make my head look bigger)

"Aruighaewwere...donuts...tapirs...martha"

"It seems you are missing the point of this spiritual text. 'This continent' refers to the americas, which means where the americans live, the 'former inhabitants' mentioned. Of course, the inhabitants mean descendants of people from america which describe those individuals who are in the Book of Mormon...duh.

The americas can be many things, as the Book of Mormon describes people leaving to become the islanders of the south pacific. The americas are the people, the american continent where these people dwell."

...context...lying for the lord...peer review....blawaikenodru"

And there we have it. An explanation as good as any mopologist treatise.



Very good, however you missed two critical points.

#1. Verbally sigh and tell us that this is an old question and has been repeatedly and sufficiently answered before.
#2. Attack the intelligence and/or motives of the questioner.


Chris <><
_moksha
_Emeritus
Posts: 22508
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:42 pm

Post by _moksha »

I have a comment: When addressing allegory, it really is unnecessary to add explanatory sub-theories. In addition, it is no doubt futile worrying about any internal inconsistency in how the sub-theory relates to the allegory. It is much better to simply appreciate what symbolic truth one can glean from the allegory.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Who Knows
_Emeritus
Posts: 2455
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:09 pm

Post by _Who Knows »

I guess what I'm looking for is this: The LGT basically says that the americas were already populated with millions of people by the time Lehi & co. arrived, and the Book of Mormon covers just a limited portion of the americas.

But, the quote says the Book of Mormon tells the source of the inhabitants of the americas were the Lehites - leaving no room for prior inhabitants.

Any other thoughts?
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
_rcrocket

Re: How does this quote square with the LGT?

Post by _rcrocket »

Who Knows wrote:Here is the quote (Joseph Smith telling us what the angel moroni said to him):

Joseph Smith – History 1:34 wrote:there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang.


Moroni told Joseph Smith that the Book of Mormon told the story of the source of the inhabitants of the american continent. How do the LGT apologists explain this?


The quote is weakly ambigious. Try instead a phrase from the Introduction to the Book of Mormon: ". . . the Lamanites, and they are the principal inhabitants of the American Indians." Your question could be better asked with that quote.

The answer: The LGT, at least with all of its bells and whistles, is hokum. [There are some aspects which make some sense.] No general authority has ever adopted it in a conference address whereas there are plenty who have said things which would undercut the LGT.


P
_Who Knows
_Emeritus
Posts: 2455
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:09 pm

Re: How does this quote square with the LGT?

Post by _Who Knows »

Plutarch wrote:The quote is weakly ambigious. Try instead a phrase from the Introduction to the Book of Mormon: ". . . the Lamanites, and they are the principal inhabitants of the American Indians." Your question could be better asked with that quote.

The answer: The LGT, at least with all of its bells and whistles, is hokum. [There are some aspects which make some sense.] No general authority has ever adopted it in a conference address whereas there are plenty who have said things which would undercut the LGT.


P


What? I'm not even sure what you're saying. And your 'quote' from the Book of Mormon intro. is not even right.

Anyways, i've heard enough apologist arguments on that Book of Mormon intro. quote, and how 'principal' doesn't really mean 'principal'.

Anyways Plutarch, which way do you swing? Hemispheric? Or LGT?
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
_The Dude
_Emeritus
Posts: 2976
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:16 am

Post by _The Dude »

The apologists might point out that this seems to be a specific reference to the Nephite civilization. They were "former" inhabitants, a people that was destroyed, and the Book of Mormon gives the origin of their lost civilization. "This continent" seems to mean North America, including Central America, the hypothesized home of the Nephites in LGT-land.

When all else fails, Joseph Smith could simply be misquoting Moroni. "The former inhabitants" should have been rendered "some former inhabitants", since we now know there were many other indigenous people who had nothing to do with the Book of Mormon.
_Who Knows
_Emeritus
Posts: 2455
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:09 pm

Post by _Who Knows »

The Dude wrote:The apologists might point out that this seems to be a specific reference to the Nephite civilization. They were "former" inhabitants, a people that was destroyed, and the Book of Mormon gives the origin of their lost civilization. "This continent" seems to mean North America, including Central America, the hypothesized home of the Nephites in LGT-land.


I can see that, but it seems a stretch. Moroni said THE inhabitants, not SOME inhabitants, of THIS continent, not PART OF THIS continent.

When all else fails, Joseph Smith could simply be misquoting Moroni. "The former inhabitants" should have been rendered "some former inhabitants", since we now know there were many other indigenous people who had nothing to do with the Book of Mormon.


Well, it is cannonized - so i expect it to be correct.
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
_MormonMendacity
_Emeritus
Posts: 405
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:56 am

Re: How does this quote square with the LGT?

Post by _MormonMendacity »

Who Knows wrote:
Plutarch wrote:The quote is weakly ambigious. Try instead a phrase from the Introduction to the Book of Mormon: ". . . the Lamanites, and they are the principal inhabitants of the American Indians." Your question could be better asked with that quote.

The answer: The LGT, at least with all of its bells and whistles, is hokum. [There are some aspects which make some sense.] No general authority has ever adopted it in a conference address whereas there are plenty who have said things which would undercut the LGT.


P


What? I'm not even sure what you're saying. And your 'quote' from the Book of Mormon intro. is not even right.

Anyways, i've heard enough apologist arguments on that Book of Mormon intro. quote, and how 'principal' doesn't really mean 'principal'.

Anyways Plutarch, which way do you swing? Hemispheric? Or LGT?

I think VR channeled a much more eloquent apologist than P did...and much more accurately, too.
"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder" --Homer Simpson's version of Pascal's Wager
Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool.
Religion is ignorance reduced to a system.
Post Reply