Joseph Smith: Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

[_ktallamigo]

Anyone out there read "Inside the Mind of Joseph Smith" by Robert D. Anderson?

My spouse has just been diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder - which explains everything about him and our marriage. As I have been researching the disorder and its characteristics it occurred to me that this might also account for the mysteries of the personality of Joseph Smith.

So, I googled on "Joseph Smith narcissistic" and found the Anderson book. I don't know if you have discussed the book on this forum, because I am pretty new here and don't have much time to post.

My spouse has just been excommunicated from the church. He's been living a double life. I've just found out about years of affairs, flirts, etc. He is a very charming, charismatic personality who uses his position as a public (elected) figure and member of the "helping professions" to find women to seduce. He masquerades as the good Mormon guy, with wife and family.

Just like Joseph's Smith's narcissism led to numerous encarcerations, terrible consequences for his devoted followers, his destruction of the printing press and subsequent death - so my husband's narcissism and unethical behavior could send him to jail, has devastated his friends, and has basically destroyed the life of myself and my children.

Some people say that the church itself - created by a narcissist - is basically a narcissistic institution. Below is something Marg posted a while back about the psychology of con men (you need to scroll down just a little):

link

I think Narcissistic Personality Disorder explains so much about Joseph Smith.

What do you think?

ktall

[_harmony]

I believe it was Trixie (beastie) who connected Joseph with this at one time. I don't know if she still does.

[_charity]

Anyone out there read "Inside the Mind of Joseph Smith" by Robert D. Anderson?
I think Narcissistic Personality Disorder explains so much about Joseph Smith.

What do you think?

ktall

I am very sorry about your experience with your husband. You and your children should get appropriate counseling to help you deal with this devastating experience.

Speaking as a person with training in psychology, it is next to impossible to diagnose a person who is not available for interivew. Dr. Anderson, who is a psychiatrist, should know better. Psychobiolgraphies are a pop pheneomenon. Really popular because you can take potshots at a target which cannot be proven. It is always easy to go backwards in a person's life and prove almost anything you want.

For instance, he makes a major point that Joseph Smith had a "troubled" childhood. What events were cited? Poverty. Childhood illness. Death of a close family member. How many people can you name who would fit that profile? Abraham Lincoln for one.


When you only have a historical record, any event can be interpreted in different ways. What do you do when one witness says the person was cold and unfeeling, and another says he was warm and loving? When a major event is interpreted by two different eye witnesses in the different ways?

Psychobio's are on shaky ground.

Again, I am sorry for your experience. Please get help.

[_moksha]

ktallamigo, it is my understanding that a narcissistic personality disorder is not considered a major mental illness, but rather a personality disorder as the title implies. Hopefully your husband can be helped by talking therapy. This of course is distinguished from Bi-polar disorder that is characterized by periods of grandiosity, periods of hypersexuality, feelings of invincibility, a great deal of energy and basically a change from normal everyday behavior. Bi-polar disorder can be treated with medications.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Ktall...

Welcome to the board.

My heart goes out to you for all that you are dealing with right now.

I have read Anderson's book, and also, The Sword of Laban, which is another attempt to get inside the mind of Joseph Smith. Dan Vogel's, The Making of a Propht, addresses the life of Joseph Smith from a Family Systems Theory perspective which is very interesting as well.

I hold to the opinion that we can't truly diagnose someone with only their history, however, I do think we can gather information about one's behavior and glimpse problems or difficulties or symptoms.

It seems clear to me that if someone were alive today and exhibited the behavior of Joseph Smith he would most definitely be diagnosed with a personality disorder or mental illness.

My personal guess is Delusion Disorder grandiosity type.

Beastie actually goes with Bi-polar.

Who knows... again, we can look at others who exhibit similar behavior and make some guess but that is about all we can do.

~dancer~

[_charity]

.

Who knows... again, we can look at others who exhibit similar behavior and make some guess but that is about all we can do.

~dancer~

Except we can't observe the behavior. All we have are others' conflicting statements on what that behavior was.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Charity...

Except we can't observe the behavior. All we have are others' conflicting statements on what that behavior was.

No we can't observe behavior.

But we do have some pretty consistent stories and well documented records of Joseph Smith's behavior.

We have an enormous amount of material from Joseph Smith that establishes some facts and gives a picture of what he thought, what he believed, and how he behaved.

Biographers frequently go back into history to gather material as they put together a story of someone's life. Often there are clues to various illnesses.

~dancer~

[_charity]

Hi Charity...

Except we can't observe the behavior. All we have are others' conflicting statements on what that behavior was.

No we can't observe behavior.

But we do have some pretty consistent stories and well documented records of Joseph Smith's behavior.

We have an enormous amount of material from Joseph Smith that establishes some facts and gives a picture of what he thought, what he believed, and how he behaved.

Biographers frequently go back into history to gather material as they put together a story of someone's life. Often there are clues to various illnesses.

~dancer~

Actually, dancer, we have two pretty consistent views of Joseph Smith, the pro and the con. It is not possible to reconcile the two. And most of these pscychobio's have to discount what Joseph Smith said because the psychologist/psychiatrist paradigm does not allow for visions, revelations, etc. So, if at the beginning you disallow the truth, then everything else built on that foundation is false.

[_Runtu]

Actually, dancer, we have two pretty consistent views of Joseph Smith, the pro and the con. It is not possible to reconcile the two. And most of these pscychobio's have to discount what Joseph Smith said because the psychologist/psychiatrist paradigm does not allow for visions, revelations, etc. So, if at the beginning you disallow the truth, then everything else built on that foundation is false.

What a strange way to look at Joseph Smith. Strictly speaking, the above is quite wrong. What we have is the sum total of every witness to what Joseph Smith did and said. And we create a "version" (your word) by how we interpret that totality of evidence. Trying to squeeze a complicated and often contradictory life into "pro" and "con" versions seems rather self-serving.

Joseph Smith is an enigma to me.

At times selfless and generous; at other times incredibly self-absorbed.
Humble, yet boasting.
Religious yet concerned about the things of the world.
A loving husband, yet a secretive serial polygamist.

You tell me how to make that into a consistent pro or con version. Can't be done.

[Anonymous]

I have to agree with runtu here. The "pro and con" paradigm (heh) is shockingly simplistic and reductive. It would be about any human being, too, but especially in relation to such a fascinating historical figure as Joseph Smith. I am critical of much of what he asserted and produced, but it is only from the most diminished position that because I do not believe he was a prophet of God, I am therefore "anti-" Mormon or "con" Joseph Smith and everything I may say about him therefore utterly false.

I am critical of some of Smith's productions, dismissive of others, intrigued by yet others, and overall have a great deal of sympathy for him as human being. There are passages in what he wrote/dictated that I find rather strange and beautiful, too. At the moment, I'm actually learning a great deal about him---I could characterize some of my current reading and discussion as a thorough-going informal study of Joseph Smith, something that could actually tip over into what I would more precisely term a "formal" study. To borrow runtu's term, I am enjoying the "enigma:" there is a lot here to ponder, explicate and think more on. But is it the case that unless I suddenly reduce my thinking to a believer's stereotype that I am "choosing" to disbelieve rather than believe (to borrow the notion that has been attributed here to Givens)?

(I put in that parenthetical caveat because I've not read/heard the place where Givens makes that point and I hope its a misreading, as on the face of it, it's silly.)