That doesn't sound right

[_Runtu]

Today my office's resident militant atheist dropped by my desk to ask me how many wives Joseph Smith had. I gave him Compton's estimate of 33, which some people consider conservative. He then said that he'd heard that some of the wives were already married at the time, and I again cited Compton's estimate of 11 polyandrous wives.

Unbeknownst to me, another guy was standing just around the corner, listening in. He poked his head around, and I will never forget the look on his face: a mixture of horror and panic and anger. He said, "There's no way that could be. That doesn't sound right at all. I don't know where you're getting that, but I've been a member all my life and have taught seminary, and I know that isn't true."

I told him that I wasn't making it up and that I'd show him my sources, if he wished. So, we sat down and I showed him Joseph Smith's wives in the IGI on the church's FamilySearch website. He was horribly shaken and said he'd have to "reserve judgment" until he could do more research, which I said was wise of him.

I felt kind of bad because I wasn't meaning to shake anyone's testimony. I simply answered two questions from a guy who is new to Utah and is delving into church history (his wife is an inactive LDS turned atheist).

But what is it about Joseph Smith's polygamy that is so shocking to people? The atheist guy told me later that the shocked guy assured him that my information was wrong, that Joseph Smith was a wonderful man who never would have done anything like that. I suspect it's a result of the adoring version of Joseph Smith that many of us got in Primary and Sunday School growing up. I grew up being taught that Joseph was a sort of demigod: half Jesus, half superhero. And I admit that when I learned of his polyandry, it threw me for a loop.

The atheist guy asked me, "Are you sure that what you said is true?" I said it was well-documented, and we looked over the sources. He said it looked true to him, and he said I had nothing to worry about because "the truth shall set you free."

So, is it bad to share the truth bluntly in that way? How do you approach these difficult subjects without sounding biased?

[_Gazelam]

What was the quote, I believe it was from Brigham Young, that a higher authority figure in the Prieshood had the right to lay claim on another mans wife?

Anyone got that reference?

[_Runtu]

What was the quote, I believe it was from Brigham Young, that a higher authority figure in the Prieshood had the right to lay claim on another mans wife?

Anyone got that reference?

The Second Way in which a wife can be seperated from her husband, while he continues to be faithful to his God and his preisthood, I have not revealed, except to a few persons in this Church; and a few have received it from Joseph the prophet as well as myself. If a woman can find a man holding the keys of the preisthood with higher power and authority than her husband, and he is disposed to take her he can do so, otherwise she has got to remain where she is ... there is no need for a bill of divorcement ... To recapitulate. First if a man forfiets his covenants with a wife, or wives, becoming unfaithful to his God, and his preisthood, that wife or wives are free from him without a bill of divorcement. Second. If a woman claimes protection at the hands of a man, possessing more power in the preisthood and higher keys, if he is disposed to rescue her and has obtained the consent of her husband to make her his wife he can do so without a bill of divorcement.

Heh. I'm a high priest, so does that mean your wife can trade up for me? :)

[_dartagnan]

I've been caught in a couple of situations like that myself, and I don't like them. Not because I feel like I don't have my facts straight, but because I don't like being instrumental in anyone's departure from the faith, at least, not anyone that emotionally tied to it.

I see missionaries all the time and I stop and talk to them. They ask me if I'm a member and I just say yes and then immediately change the subject. If I told them the details about my departure from the faith, then I just know I would be sending these kids to bed at night worrying. Who needs that on their mind? Not me.

Let them keep living their fantasy. I've learned that there aren't too many LDS who will seriously listen to you anyway. They don't want to hear anything that disrupts their concept of reality. Those who are serious about what you have to say, will eventually come to you - probably to reconvert you, but it is best to wait on them anyway.

[_Runtu]

I've been caught in a couple of situations like that myself, and I don't like them. Not because I feel like I don't have my facts straight, but because I don't like being instrumental in anyone's departure from the faith, at least, not anyone that emotionally tied to it.

I see missionaries all the time and I stop and talk to them. They ask me if I'm a member and I just say yes and then immediately change the subject. If I told them the details about my departure from the faith, then I just know I would be sending these kids to bed at night worrying. Who needs that on their mind? Not me.

Let them keep living their fantasy. I've learned that there aren't too many LDS who will seriously listen to you anyway. They don't want to hear anything that disrupts their concept of reality. Those who are serious about what you have to say, will eventually come to you - probably to reconvert you, but it is best to wait on them anyway.

That's exactly how I feel. I don't really care to burst anyone's bubble, and when it happens I feel bad about it. That guy's face will probably haunt me for a while.

[Guest]

Oh man am I green with envy!

Wow, fresh meat! Nothing like the look of HORROR on the face of the unwitting zealous Mormon.... The only thing that tops that is when you knock their confidence right to the ground with the click of a mouse... and not to an anti Mormon site!

That is the only reason I would move back to Utard. Just to have weekly, if not daily experiences like that!

Do share more when such moments arise in the future! It has been two years since the last time I had a similar experience. I will live vicariously through your stories. I wish the missionaries would come by again, just so I could show them some pre 1990 temple Youtube videos on my iPhone. The last ones did not believe the pre 1990 ceremony stuff.

Back to your Old Testament, both me and my wife did not know about any Smith poly/gamy/andry. ZIP NADA ZILCH.

And yes both born and raised in the heart of Zion. Both attended four years of HS seminary, and two in college.

That was our very first WTF moment when we first started searching on horses in the Book of Mormon.

It bothered me, but really disturbed my wife. She said she had always looked up to him as a great husband, only to Emma.

[_Gazelam]

From the quotes it sounds liek this is a rescue type of deal. In the first case its a higher priesthood taking the woman from an unfaithful man, and in the second its a woman leaving an unfaithful husband.

Know I know that in one case it was a man who was sering a mission or was sent on one. whatever the case, I don't know al the details involved.

Interesting stuff though.

[_Runtu]

Oh man am I green with envy!

Wow, fresh meat! Nothing like the look of HORROR on the face of the unwitting zealous Mormon.... The only thing that tops that is when you knock their confidence right to the ground with the click of a mouse... and not to an anti Mormon site!

That is the only reason I would move back to Utard. Just to have weekly, if not daily experiences like that!

Do share more when such moments arise in the future! It has been two years since the last time I had a similar experience. I will live vicariously through your stories.

Both me and my wife did not know about any Smith poly/gamy/andry. ZIP NADA ZILCH.

And yes both born and raised in the heart of Zion. Both attended four years of HS seminary, and two in college.

That was our very first WTF moment when we first started searching on horses in the Book of Mormon.

It bothered me, but really disturbed my wife. She said she had always looked up to him as a great husband, only to Emma.

Well, I can't say I share your glee, Port. I think I just shook this guy up pretty badly. Now he's probably going to be afraid of me.

[_Boaz & Lidia]

Oh man am I green with envy!

Wow, fresh meat! Nothing like the look of HORROR on the face of the unwitting zealous Mormon.... The only thing that tops that is when you knock their confidence right to the ground with the click of a mouse... and not to an anti Mormon site!

That is the only reason I would move back to Utard. Just to have weekly, if not daily experiences like that!

Do share more when such moments arise in the future! It has been two years since the last time I had a similar experience. I will live vicariously through your stories.

Both me and my wife did not know about any Smith poly/gamy/andry. ZIP NADA ZILCH.

And yes both born and raised in the heart of Zion. Both attended four years of HS seminary, and two in college.

That was our very first WTF moment when we first started searching on horses in the Book of Mormon.

It bothered me, but really disturbed my wife. She said she had always looked up to him as a great husband, only to Emma.

Well, I can't say I share your glee, Port. I think I just shook this guy up pretty badly. Now he's probably going to be afraid of me.

Dude, just to F' with him, wear a thin white dress shirt and a garmie top!

Hopefully the google pipes are running at capacity to his home computer as we speak.

If he ever comes to realize this is all crap, he will thank you and ask how he could ever repay you.. At which time you can say, "No problem, just seeing your initial reaction was payment enough!"

[_Runtu]

From the quotes it sounds liek this is a rescue type of deal. In the first case its a higher priesthood taking the woman from an unfaithful man, and in the second its a woman leaving an unfaithful husband.

Know I know that in one case it was a man who was sering a mission or was sent on one. whatever the case, I don't know al the details involved.

Interesting stuff though.

Yep. That would be Orson Hyde, who was sent on a mission to Jerusalem. His wife was then given to Willard Richards and then to Joseph Smith. There is no indication that Hyde was unfaithful or that his wife needed rescuing.