True Believers and the Brain

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_truth dancer
_Emeritus
Posts: 4792
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:40 pm

True Believers and the Brain

Post by _truth dancer »

One of my favorite topics is why and how we believe... more and more we are learning the neurological component to belief.

It seems belief is an actual "hard wiring" sort of phenomenon in the brain.

What Eric Hoffer describes is now being confirmed in a very physical and concrete way.

In Andrew Newberg's book, Born to Believe, he writes,
"The brain is a stubborn organ. Once its primary set of beliefs has been established, the brain finds it difficult to interact opposing ideas and beliefs. This has profound consequences for individuals and society and helps to explain why some people cannot abandon destructive beliefs, be they religious, political, or psychological."


Also, in some fascinating research at Emory, using fMRIs to study brain activity, looking at how our "political brains" work, Drew Western, director of clinical psychology concludes, "essentially, it appears as if partisans twirl the cognitive kaleidoscope until they get the conclusions they want, and then they get massively reinforced for it, with the elimination of negative emotional states and the activation of positive ones."

And finally, a quote from an article in SHIFT, summarizing the research, "And so it appears that we avoid the discomfort of contradictory facts when they challenge a particular decision or belief - denial equals emotional homeostasis. This observation has a strong bearing on how one confronts an existing world view and considers ways to change it."

So, while we are learning of the hard-wiring component, my question is, what makes some people able to release long held beliefs while others cannot? It seems that be far, the easier and more "normal" way to live is to continue to believe and those who are able to release belief are the rare exception?

I would love to hear your thoughts and ask that the discussion expand beyond just the LDS mindset if possible. (I think the same dynamics that keep believers in the LDS church are those that keep people in JW, Scientology, Catholicism, EV, or any other religion, and the same factors that allow people to release belief in the LDS church are those that allow the release of belief in other religions, but if you disagree feel free to share your thoughts)!

Also, what do you think enabled you to release belief (if you have done so) while others do not? Or if you are a believer, do you think those who release belief in a religion have some sort of neurological abnormality or something? And, given that there is a neurological hard wiring to belief, how much of belief is a choice?

(I hold that belief is not just a choice due to the fact that I have yet to hear anyone who can choose to believe the Santa story is true). :-)

What are the implications of the inability of some to release damaging or untrue beliefs to society? In some respects I think this hard wiring process has become maladaptive given that some beliefs may in fact be those that can potentially destroy our world. Might it be important for us to learn the dynamics and process of releasing beliefs that are clearly untrue and damaging?

Any thoughts or insights?

~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
_The Nehor
_Emeritus
Posts: 11832
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:05 am

Post by _The Nehor »

Does this mean that you're hard-wired to fight against the LDS Church?
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_truth dancer
_Emeritus
Posts: 4792
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:40 pm

Post by _truth dancer »

Since I have never fought against the church and continually support those who find their lives blessed by belief, I would say, no.

~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
_The Nehor
_Emeritus
Posts: 11832
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:05 am

Post by _The Nehor »

Well, then I'm going to assume that this proves that Bond is hard-wired to be heterosexual, Mercury is hard-wired to be a pruntard git, and I'm hard-wired to throw snow-covered rocks at little kids.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Moniker
_Emeritus
Posts: 4004
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:53 pm

Re: True Believers and the Brain

Post by _Moniker »

truth dancer wrote:
(I hold that belief is not just a choice due to the fact that I have yet to hear anyone who can choose to believe the Santa story is true). :-)


Hallelujah! It is sooo frustrating, for me, when people tell me I can choose to believe in God. I'll do that when they believe in the Easter Bunny. :)
_The Nehor
_Emeritus
Posts: 11832
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:05 am

Re: True Believers and the Brain

Post by _The Nehor »

Moniker wrote:
truth dancer wrote:
(I hold that belief is not just a choice due to the fact that I have yet to hear anyone who can choose to believe the Santa story is true). :-)


Hallelujah! It is sooo frustrating, for me, when people tell me I can choose to believe in God. I'll do that when they believe in the Easter Bunny. :)


I believe.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_asbestosman
_Emeritus
Posts: 6215
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:32 pm

Post by _asbestosman »

So then, how responsible should people be for their religious beliefs? Should a similar standard be applied to sexual orientation? I'm not sure how much choice one has in either. I can't just choose to stop believing that the LDS church is true and that the atheists are correct. I can't suddenly start liking the fellow either, no matter how studly The Nehor is.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy.
eritis sicut dii
I support NCMO
_Moniker
_Emeritus
Posts: 4004
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:53 pm

Post by _Moniker »

Nehor, I don't believe you. :)

To not derail with Nehor!

TD, great topic!

What are the implications of the inability of some to release damaging or untrue beliefs to society? In some respects I think this hard wiring process has become maladaptive given that some beliefs may in fact be those that can potentially destroy our world. Might it be important for us to learn the dynamics and process of releasing beliefs that are clearly untrue and damaging?


I have no insights, yet, I agree that the implications of false belief systems can be very damaging. Those that seem to be most zealous supporters of their belief systems without wiggle room are the ones that often times appear to be the most dangerous -- to me.
_The Nehor
_Emeritus
Posts: 11832
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:05 am

Re: True Believers and the Brain

Post by _The Nehor »

The Nehor wrote:
Moniker wrote:
truth dancer wrote:
(I hold that belief is not just a choice due to the fact that I have yet to hear anyone who can choose to believe the Santa story is true). :-)


Hallelujah! It is sooo frustrating, for me, when people tell me I can choose to believe in God. I'll do that when they believe in the Easter Bunny. :)


I believe.


You assume I am joking. However if there is no Easter Bunny I will one day create one. Since I will dwell in eternity at my whim the Easter Bunny would have always existed. Therefore, the Easter Bunny is true real. So are lightsabers, magic, and the 5-second rule. NEHOR HAS SPOKEN!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_John Larsen
_Emeritus
Posts: 1895
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:16 pm

Re: True Believers and the Brain

Post by _John Larsen »

The Nehor wrote:
The Nehor wrote:
Moniker wrote:
truth dancer wrote:
(I hold that belief is not just a choice due to the fact that I have yet to hear anyone who can choose to believe the Santa story is true). :-)


Hallelujah! It is sooo frustrating, for me, when people tell me I can choose to believe in God. I'll do that when they believe in the Easter Bunny. :)


I believe.


You assume I am joking. However if there is no Easter Bunny I will one day create one. Since I will dwell in eternity at my whim the Easter Bunny would have always existed. Therefore, the Easter Bunny is true real. So are lightsabers, magic, and the 5-second rule. NEHOR HAS SPOKEN!!!!!!!!!!!!


Oh no! You have walked into a paradox. If The Nehor becomes exalted, he will create the Easter Bunny which will have always existed. But it doesn't exist. Therefore, we know that the The Nehor will never reach the CK.

As an alternative, may I recommend Scotch?
Post Reply