No Such Thing as Internet Mormons?

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_CaliforniaKid
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No Such Thing as Internet Mormons?

Post by _CaliforniaKid »

A few people around here have claimed that there is no such thing as Internet Mormons or Internet Mormonism. I've been reading a bit about religious use of media lately, and it has only confirmed my belief that there's something to the whole Internet/Chapel Mormon typology. Consider the effect that media has had on other religions:

1) The papyrus medium in early Christianity was available only to elites and intellectuals, which undoubtedly contributed to the Hellenization and philosophization of early Christianity.
2) The Protestant Reformation emerged largely due to the power of the printing press and the popularity of preaching ministries. Protestantism's central characteristic was that it was a religion of the Word: the written Word and the spoken Word were at the very core of magisterial Reformation theologies.
3) Televangelists influenced by the celebrity culture of Hollywood have shaped an entirely new Pentecostal theological tradition that hinges on prosperity, divine blessing, the accumulation of wealth, and personality cult.

These are obviously just a few of the more obtrusive examples; elsewhere, the influence of media is more subtle. But I think it exists, nonetheless. Consider the following observations from Ogbu Kalu:

...media technology has an innate culture...

...every transcendental idea must be mediated. So religion is intrinsically woven into various forms of media representations. Communication is essential for building community. It is at the heart of the church's existence. The church is under mandate to communicate the gospel, reveal itself to the world, and dialogue and guide through a creative use of symbols and media. Thus, each new form of media provides the church with new language...

Religious users could attempt to shape media to their needs, but media too could reshape the religions, and even trivialize the content and create a religious counterculture.

African Pentecostalism: An Introduction, 104-7


If you're aware at all of postmodern theories of language, you'll know that scholars have argued that our entire worlds are shaped by the grammar and vocabulary we use to conceptualize the world. Someone who speaks German will understand the world and the relatedness of things to each other differently simply by virtue of his/her different idiom. In this light, Kalu's remark that different media offer religions "new language" is very interesting. It does, indeed, seem that the different media we use to frame our religious conceptual worlds affect the way we think. Someone who is raised in a rock n' roll church will probably have a very different concept of "worship" than someone who is raised in a church that uses hymns. This may even have deeper implications, like for example on the way they conceptualize God. The rock n' roll God might be fun and have a sense of humor, whereas the hymn God might be quieter and more noble and austere.

Also interesting is Kalu's remark that different media have innate cultures. This is certainly true of the Internet. Think, for example, of the polarizing consequences of Internet message boards like MADB. They have created a cadre of militant apologists, as well as a cadre of equally militant exmormons. The blogosphere, meanwhile, encourages everyone to have a voice. I recently listened to a podcast on feminist Mormon blogging. The panelists argued that the blogosphere provides disenfranchised people who might never speak out-- like Mormon housewives-- the opportunity to let their voices be heard. This does, as Kalu suggests, tend toward creating something of a "religious counterculture". If you've read Thomas Friedmann's The World Is Flat, you have encountered his similar argument that the online encyclopedia Wikipedia has taken knowledge-creation out of the hands of a few educated elites and democratized it, so that anyone and everyone can be involved.

Media like General Conference tend to emphasize top-down doctrine construction, and although testimony meetings encourage some lay involvement in the life of the church, they largely reinforce the top-down polity. Journals like the FARMS Review have had some influence in reversing this trend, allowing doctrinal revisions to filter up the ranks from below. But it's still intellectuals and academics who have the agency in journals like FARMS. With the advent of the Internet, all of that changes: anyone can play a role in doctrine-construction, including many people who might otherwise never even think to undertake such a pretentious task. It is a much more democratic realm, wherein things like common sense, pop culture, interfaith dialogue, and grassroots concerns are allowed to play a much greater formative role. I don't think that Mormons on the Internet could escape being in some sense "Internet Mormons," even if they wanted to. We're rarely aware of such influences, and have difficulty mitigating them even when we are aware.

-Chris
_Mercury
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Post by _Mercury »

There is nothing to explain the phenomena of individuals who subject themselves to ideas contrary to their present highest order worldview?

I think a fundamental (somewhat genetic?) predisposition exists in calling bull. Its up to the individual though to decide if it is something worth using to kill off ones most important things in life because you have found candidates for successful replacements concerning what you thought was true.
And crawling on the planet's face
Some insects called the human race
Lost in time
And lost in space...and meaning
_CaliforniaKid
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Post by _CaliforniaKid »

Mercury wrote:There is nothing to explain the phenomena of individuals who subject themselves to ideas contrary to their present highest order worldview?


I'm not sure I understand the question.
_quaker
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Post by _quaker »

Have you ever read anything by Marshall McLuhan? He's the guy that wrote about 'the medium is the message' and the 'global village'. I've only read a few short articles that cover the contents of the longer books/essays. It seems relevant to this post.

Whenever a new technology, or medium, is introduced in society there is a unique and wide ranging response. The medium enables different forms, levels and types of social interaction that produces a ripple effect in our cummunities.

I continue to marvel at how incredible it is to see people downplay the effects of any forms of media delivered by any medium. Say the automobile, or the content of television or music. Of course it causes a change in what we do and how we do it. Everything does. The internet facilitates different expression than would otherwise be available. We are exposed to thoughts and ideas that otherwise we would not be.

But you articulated a lot of the possible effects of the internet on the way some LDS treat their religion and regard their beliefs. Thanks.
_CaliforniaKid
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Post by _CaliforniaKid »

Quaker, thanks for the reply. I was beginning to think nobody else found this even remotely interesting. :-P

quaker wrote:Have you ever read anything by Marshall McLuhan? He's the guy that wrote about 'the medium is the message' and the 'global village'. I've only read a few short articles that cover the contents of the longer books/essays. It seems relevant to this post.


No, I haven't read anything by him. But now I will! Thanks for the recommend.

Whenever a new technology, or medium, is introduced in society there is a unique and wide ranging response. The medium enables different forms, levels and types of social interaction that produces a ripple effect in our cummunities.

I continue to marvel at how incredible it is to see people downplay the effects of any forms of media delivered by any medium. Say the automobile, or the content of television or music. Of course it causes a change in what we do and how we do it. Everything does. The internet facilitates different expression than would otherwise be available. We are exposed to thoughts and ideas that otherwise we would not be.


I agree! It's interesting that you should mention the ripple effect in our communities. Dr. Shades has proposed something of a dichotomy between Internet Mormons and Chapel Mormons. I think that to a certain extent this dichotomy still holds true, both because the number of Mormons who read/talk about religion on the Internet for any substantial length of time is still fairly small relative to the larger population and because it's easy for people who develop "progressive" ideas during their interactions on the Internet to compartmentalize: to be a Chapel Mormon in the chapel and an Internet Mormon on the Internet. I imagine the ripple effect will eventually occur, and Shades' dichotomy will break down. But it will take time. (Given how much time some of us spend on the Internet, you'd think the "ripple" would be more like a tsunami! But then, some people still have a "Chapel" perspective after 10,000 posts. So maybe time spent isn't such a good measure.)

Thanks again for the reply,

-Chris
_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

There ARE Mormons on the internet and Mormons in the chapel. However, there really is no difference between the two. The beliefs are as smilar or as varied as one would expect.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
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The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_CaliforniaKid
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Post by _CaliforniaKid »

bcspace wrote:There ARE Mormons on the internet and Mormons in the chapel. However, there really is no difference between the two. The beliefs are as smilar or as varied as one would expect.


BC,

Let me ask you this: has conversing on the Internet altered the way you see the world at all? Has it affected your beliefs? I know it has mine! Are Mormons immune to the effects of Internet culture where others bow before it like willows in the wind?

-Chris
_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

Let me ask you this: has conversing on the Internet altered the way you see the world at all?


Having been able to converse with the world before the internet, not one iota.

Has it affected your beliefs?


No.

I know it has mine!


"The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded. You will find it a powerful ally." - Obi-Wan Kenobi

Are Mormons immune to the effects of Internet culture where others bow before it like willows in the wind?


No.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_ktallamigo
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Post by _ktallamigo »

bcspace wrote:There ARE Mormons on the internet and Mormons in the chapel. However, there really is no difference between the two. The beliefs are as smilar or as varied as one would expect.


I strongly disagree.

I've been a "chapel Mormon" my whole life - until the last year. I never googled anything about the church on the internet, because I never wanted to expose myself to something "anti." I did visit the official church site quite often. I had always avoided materials critical of the church, and was warned by well-meaning family members to avoid too much reading of church history because it tended to destroy one's testimony.

NEVER in my 45 years of regular, faithful, weekly church attendance did I ever hear anyone mention that Joseph Smith engaged in polyandry, or that he was involved with Fanny Alger, or that he entered into many polygamous relationships. I never heard that he was a treasure hunter and translated the Book of Mormon by looking into a hat. Never did I hear about him proposing to young girls, and having sex with them. Never did I hear the claims about the angel with the drawn sword. I'd only heard that after his death women were sealed to him, such as Eliza R. Snow.

NEVER, in church, did anyone ever discuss blood atonement, or the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

Never in church did I hear discussed that there are differing versions of the first vision. Nor that the papyrus Joseph "translated" the book of Abraham from was found, and turned out to be an ancient Egyptian funerary scroll. Never did I hear why the Nauvoo Expositor was destroyed. I was never told about the council of fifty, or why Joseph Smith would run for President. I was never informed about the DNA controversy.

Chapel Mormons simply do not hear about these things in church. Internet Mormons know all about them, and have to adjust their beliefs to maintain their testimonies.

Last spring, the second counselor in my bishopbric watched the PBS Special "The Mormons." This is a well-educated man, who is a prominent Republican party figure in my state, and is a PR guy for a very powerful corporation that does business in my area. He got up in church the following Sunday, denounced the program, and told the congregation it was all a pack of lies. All lies!! And he was sincere -- he's not an internet Mormon, he simply doesn't know about the issues addressed in the PBS program. He was flabbergasted and astounded by the program and had never heard any of these things before.

So yes, in my opinion there is a huge difference between "chapel" Mormons and "internet" Mormons, the former being largely unaware of the problematic history of their religion, and the latter having to concoct all sorts of reasons and explanations to reconcile the contradictions between Mormon teachings and beliefs - and facts.

ktall
Last edited by Guest on Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Brigham said the day would come when thousands would be made Eunuchs in order for them to be saved in the kingdom of God." (Wilford Woodruff's Diary, June 2, 1857, Vol. 5, pages 54-55)
_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

NEVER, in church


I'd say you've never been to Church; especially given some of your strawmen there.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
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