A recent chat with the online salesman at mormon.org
LDS: Hi, how are you doing today?
ME: good
LDS: Great, what can I help you with?
ME: I had the opportunity to speak with two of your representative today in downtown Santa Cruz.
LDS: Wonderful. How did your conversation go?
ME: we only had a brief conversation at the bus stop and I boarded the bus shortly thereafter.
ME: they gave me a book just as I boarded, it is called "The Book of Mormon" and they then hollered that I should visit Mormon.org if I had questions.. so here I am :)
LDS: Great, I would love to teach you more about what the Book of Mormon is and why it is so important for each of us.
ME: I read the introduction, very interesting indeed.
LDS: Great, what did you think about the things promised in the last few paragraphs of the Book of Mormon?
ME: last few?
ME: oh I never jump to the end of a book!
LDS: Yes, take a minute to read the last two paragraphs of the introduction page and let me know what you think.
ME: oh not the end of the book as you asked?
LDS: No, just the end of the introduction page.
ME: oh ok, I will. Please give me a moment.
LDS: No problem, just let me know when you have finished.
ME: ok
ME: read the entire book, then pray to god?
ME: I was curious about the second paragraph.
ME: may we discuss that?
ME: After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians.
LDS: Yes, read the Book of Mormon, study and ponder it's teachings, and then pray to know if it is true and is God's word.
LDS: If you do this, you will receive a confirmation that it is a true book and is God's word.
LDS: Yes, what is your question about this paragraph?
ME: This book is an actual history of the American Indians?
LDS: Yes, the people that have written this book and are written about in this book are the ancestors of today's Native Americans.
ME: That is interesting for sure.
ME: So, what do scientists think of that ?
LDS: There are mixed viewpoints on this subject with people who are not members of the church.
ME: Why is that?
LDS: There are some scientists that don't think that the things in the Book of Mormon happened the way it teaches, but that is there opinion and anybody who sincerely wants to know if the Book of Mormon speaks the truth can find.....
LDS: out for themselves by asking God in prayer.
ME: I respect your view point, but to make such a bold claim and not back it with evidence will draw some criticisms
LDS: There may be some criticisms, but there are also evidences. There are resources on LDS.org that can explain some of those evidences in greater detail.
ME: Will you show me those links ?
LDS: Hold on for a minute while I find some things for you.
ME: Thank you.
LDS: http://newsroom.LDS.org/ldsnewsroom/eng ... -of-mormon
(This URL is opening in the browser window that you opened the chat window from.)
ME: thanks pulling it up now.
ME: hmmm that is interesting...
ME: Since there are no archaeological evidences, you ask that we simply pray?
LDS: I believe there are archeological evidences, but I have to admit that I don't really know where to refer you to to find them, but what it truly comes down to is getting an answer from God.
LDS: God loves you and will help you learn for yourself that the Book of Mormon is true, no matter what anybody else may tell you.
ME: Look, with all due respect,
ME: you are telling me that I should pray even though there are no physical evidences that the very introduction claims?
LDS: Yes, I believe that faith plays a powerful place for us and that God is the ultimate source of truth. So I have no problem with asking you to go to God in prayer and asking Him so that you can know this for yourself.
ME: Look, again, I respect others beleifs, but the introduction to this book has made some very bold claims, and to attempt to brush the lack of evidence is a bit dishonest.
LDS: Will you take the challenge we receive in the introduction of the Book of Mormon and read it, study it, and pray about it so that you can know for yourself?
ME: How can I ?
ME: I have a feeling of apprehension from you already.
LDS: Just by doing as it says. I know if you will honestly and sincerely read The Book of Mormon, ponder its teachings, and then pray and ask God if it is true, you will receive your answer and you can know for yourself as I do....
LDS: that the Book of Mormon is the word of God.
ME: I already feel it is not based on our conversation. Why have such a bold statement if they cannot back it up?
LDS: I'm sorry you feel that way. The spiritual proof will back up any concerns you may have, but you need to go forth with faith and test it out.
ME: why have such a statement and then be disingenuous about it?
LDS: Because it makes faith so necessary. As I said before, I do believe there is physical evidence, but I don't know exactly where to direct you to prove it to you. But what it comes down to is the spiritual confirmation from God.
ME: So I am to ask god if this book is a historical record of the American Indians??
LDS: Yes, and if you honestly read, study, and pray about it sincerely, God will give you the answer if it is true or not. I have found for myself that it is a true book and is God's words for us. Just have faith and put it to the test.
ME: I can understand that you being raised in this feel the pressure from your parents, but I am an intellectual and feel god respects that.
LDS: I respect your beliefs as well and I want you to know that I am not a member of this church because of family pressures but because God has revealed to me that this is Christ's true church and I have found blessings through it.....
ME: Please do not be this way...
ME: were you born into this religion?
LDS: Please take a chance to read and study the Book of Mormon and find out for yourself if you have not already done so. What can it hurt to try and test it out
LDS: Yes.
ME: and you live in which state?
[color=Green]ME: UTah?
LDS: Yes I live in Utah, but there are so many more members of the church that don't live in Utah, or the USA.
ME: Yes but you really cannot examine this from the outside, your family dynamics do not allow for that.. am I correct?
LDS: I would have to disagree. I have found out for myself that this is Christ's true church and I respect if your belief is otherwise. However, I want you to repect my beliefs and I want you to know there is no doubt in my mind this church is ....
LDS: true or that the Book of Mormon is God's word.
LDS: I actually need to be going for the evening, but I hope you will continue to search these things more through study and prayer and learning more from Mormon.org and LDS.org.
ME: so if you told your family that you no longer beleived all of this, how would you be treated?
LDS: Have a good night!
LDS: My family would still love even if I told them I didn't believe any more. However, I believe this with all of my heart and will never deny that.
LDS: Once again, I hope you have a good evening but I really do need to be going.
ME: if this was not true, would YOU want to know?
ME: YES or NO
LDS: I already know by beliefs are true and wish you would ask God so you can know for yourself. Have a good night.
Self induced emotional epiphanies Trump evidence and logic?
-
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 1416
- Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:31 am