Pine Box Thread: Suicide or Giving in to Rape?

[_Inconceivable]

TO TAKE ONE'S OWN LIFE (SUICIDE) IN AN ATTEMPT TO PRESERVE A PURELY TEMPORAL STATE?

There is certainly evil in one of the above choices. Which one?

To contribute in the murder of one's self or to consciously give in to rape in order to preserve one's life?

Where lies the lessor Virtue?

What in the hell is the matter with you Pine Box minded people???


Life ought to be cherished and priceless. Particularly when we view this concept in light of the lives of our own children.

They have one life. Let them make the best of it. They do that by living.

Teach your children to survive.

- And then put the blame where it can only belong - upon the assailant.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Inc,

Well, the mindset of these people is that a girl or woman won't receive salvation if she is not sexually pure, hence better to die sexually pure than live. I guess. :-(

But I think more recent teachings (Scott), are that Christ can redeem a woman even if she is "sexually impure" due to rape.

It is all craziness in my opinion.

~dancer~

[_Yoda]

I have actually spoken personally with Elder Scott. I know him fairly well. His views from the first talk were actually taken a little out of context.

He did not mean that a person who is raped needs to repent. What he was trying to say was that the healing power of Jesus Christ could make everyone feel whole.

This part was mis-stated. I'm not sure if it was transcribed wrong, or whether he just worded it badly:

“The victim must do all in his or her power to stop the abuse. Most often, the victim is innocent because of being disabled by fear or the power or authority of the offender. At some point in time, however, the Lord may prompt a victim to recognize a degree of responsibility for abuse. Your priesthood leader will help assess your responsibility so that, if needed, it can be addressed. Otherwise the seeds of guilt will remain and sprout into bitter fruit. Yet no matter what degree of responsibility, from absolutely none to increasing consent, the healing power of the atonement of Jesus Christ can provide a complete cure. (See D&C 138:1-4.) Forgiveness can be obtained for all involved in abuse. (See A of F 1:3.) Then comes a restoration of self-respect, self-worth, and a renewal of life.” (Richard G. Scott, “Healing the Tragic Scars of Abuse,” Ensign, May 1992, 31)

He should have simply said "the healing power of Jesus Christ" rather than the "the healing power of the atonement of Jesus Christ".

The atonement referred to those who committed sin. But those who committed no sin (the victim) can still find comfort in Jesus Christ.

Also, I think his concern is that a victim of a heinous crime can become so embittered that it can ruin his/her own life, and actually give the perpetrator all of the power.

In re-reading his statement here, I believe he was speaking in more general terms as far as abuse is concerned. I don't think he meant that a woman who had been raped had any fault involved. There are, however, other forms of abuse (physical, emotional, etc.) where both parties can contribute, particularly in domestic situations.

[_Jason Bourne]

TO TAKE ONE'S OWN LIFE (SUICIDE) IN AN ATTEMPT TO PRESERVE A PURELY TEMPORAL STATE?

There is certainly evil in one of the above choices. Which one?

To contribute in the murder of one's self or to consciously give in to rape in order to preserve one's life?

Where lies the lessor Virtue?

What in the hell is the matter with you Pine Box minded people???


Life ought to be cherished and priceless. Particularly when we view this concept in light of the lives of our own children.

They have one life. Let them make the best of it. They do that by living.

Teach your children to survive.

- And then put the blame where it can only belong - upon the assailant.

Well my friend, at times you and I disagree but not on this one. I agree whole heartedly. The mind set of some Mormons on this just sicken me. I believe the comments made be past leaders that perpetuates this ought to be repudiated.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Liz,

I think Scott's statement, "forgiveness can be obtained for all involved in abuse" also seems to suggest that there is something the survivor of the abuse needs forgiveness for.

Maybe he just worded his talk REALLY poorly...

~dancer~

[_Yoda]

TO TAKE ONE'S OWN LIFE (SUICIDE) IN AN ATTEMPT TO PRESERVE A PURELY TEMPORAL STATE?

There is certainly evil in one of the above choices. Which one?

To contribute in the murder of one's self or to consciously give in to rape in order to preserve one's life?

Where lies the lessor Virtue?

What in the hell is the matter with you Pine Box minded people???


Life ought to be cherished and priceless. Particularly when we view this concept in light of the lives of our own children.

They have one life. Let them make the best of it. They do that by living.

Teach your children to survive.

- And then put the blame where it can only belong - upon the assailant.

Well my friend, at times you and I disagree but not on this one. I agree whole heartedly. The mind set of some Mormons on this just sicken me. I believe the comments made be past leaders that perpetuates this ought to be repudiated.

For the record, I agree as well. I think that this line of thinking, as well as the plural marriage principle, need to be repudiated.

Since I know Elder Scott rather well, though, I thought I should clarify some things, since I have personally spoken to him regarding that talk.

[_bcspace]

Since I know Elder Scott rather well, though, I thought I should clarify some things, since I have personally spoken to him regarding that talk.

I'd say this mindset among us is mostly a fiction created ex nihilo by you guys.

[_Yoda]

Hi Liz,

I think Scott's statement, "forgiveness can be obtained for all involved in abuse" also seems to suggest that there is something the survivor of the abuse needs forgiveness for.

Maybe he just worded his talk REALLY poorly...

~dancer~

I think it was the latter. I think that was why he tried to clarify some things further in his later talk.

[_Moniker]

I have actually spoken personally with Elder Scott. I know him fairly well. His views from the first talk were actually taken a little out of context.

I'd be interested in seeing the full talk to see how it's been taken out of context. Is it available on line?

[_Yoda]

Since I know Elder Scott rather well, though, I thought I should clarify some things, since I have personally spoken to him regarding that talk.

I'd say this mindset among us is mostly a fiction created ex nihilo by you guys.

The line of thinking of fighting to the death during a rape situation was, indeed, something that was taught by President Kimball.

However, I think that, just as many of Brigham Young's teachings in the JoD are more indicative of culture than true revelation, this teaching all falls into that category. Rape was still a very taboo subject during that era. A lot has changed in 30 years as far as counseling resources, and education involving rape, and other forms of abuse.

The Church of today does not back this principle. It would be nice, however, if it would be stated publicly.