Did God want you to get that mortgage?

[_Sethbag]

Did God want you to get that mortgage?

Very interesting Time magazine article. Basically, some preachers may have encouraged people to believe that God would bless them materially if they gave substantial donations to their churches, and then they fell prey to the sub-prime mess and got loans they couldn't afford, and are now part of the financial system mess we're in today.

Very interesting article. It was written about some Pentecostals, but you could just about substitute Mormon in for Pentecostal and at the very least some of the Mormon cultural teachings about tithing would make a perfect fit, ie: you pay your tithing to the church and God will open the windows of heaven and bless you materially. Undoubtedly some Mormons also got ensnared in the bad mortgage fiasco, with ARMs that came back to bite them two or three years later, with houses now valued far less than they paid for them, etc.

ps: I myself got a conventional mortgage, and I didn't pay quite peak prices, but every single person who bought new in my neighborhood is underwater right now. A new family just moved into a house that's almost exactly like mine, minus one or two options that probably don't increase the value of the home by very much, and they paid like $75k less than what I currently owe on my house, on a short sale. There are "Foreclosed Home", "Bank-owned Home", and "Short Sale" signs up all over the place where I live. I could probably find you a dozen foreclosures within a 1/2 mile radius of my house. It's a real mess, and I have this fear-knot in my gut to some degree over it. Our whole neighborhood is screwed, really. I can only hold on and hope things turn around within a few years, and hope I'm able to hold on till then. There are tons of LDS here, along with a lot of non-LDS. I have to wonder how many young families bought new in this neighborhood and regarded their homes as blessings for paying tithing, and are now looking at loans whose principals are now tens of thousands of dollars more than they could possibly sell the homes for today.

[_harmony]

Did God want you to get that mortgage?

Very interesting Time magazine article. Basically, some preachers may have encouraged people to believe that God would bless them materially if they gave substantial donations to their churches, and then they fell prey to the sub-prime mess and got loans they couldn't afford, and are now part of the financial system mess we're in today.

Very interesting article. It was written about some Pentecostals, but you could just about substitute Mormon in for Pentecostal and at the very least some of the Mormon cultural teachings about tithing would make a perfect fit, ie: you pay your tithing to the church and God will open the windows of heaven and bless you materially.

God never promised any such thing. Members make assumptions, but that doesn't mean God is bound by those assumptions.

[_Gadianton]

Just think Seth, like you, I walk through my neighborhood and take note of the "repos", now, we can both walk through our neighborhoods and worry about our ability to pay our own mortages plus we can contemplate how much of every "repo" we'll be paying for in taxes, inflation, crowding out effects, not to mention the visits to gentleman's clubs and bonuses for the executives who are certainly going to party now. You ought to buy one of those repos, Seth, and dump your current house, I think there are still ways to do this.

[_Jersey Girl]

No part of me expects God to bless me materially and I have no mortgage.

:-D

[_The Dude]

I sure hope it takes at least a year or two to settle the housing bust, because that's about my timeline for getting out of Manhattan and scooping up a fine place in the suburbs. I have excellent credit and I don't want to miss the good deals. Who knows, Seth -- you and I could be neighbors out in Arizona! Some dry heat would be sweeet. In the meantime, I'm glad I don't have a vehicle to worry about filling up with gas. God doesn't have to look out for me because I'm looking out for myself.

[_Jersey Girl]

I sure hope it takes at least a year or two to settle the housing bust, because that's about my timeline for getting out of Manhattan and scooping up a fine place in the suburbs. I have excellent credit and I don't want to miss the good deals. Who knows, Seth -- you and I could be neighbors out in Arizona! Some dry heat would be sweeet. In the meantime, I'm glad I don't have a vehicle to worry about filling up with gas. God doesn't have to look out for me because I'm looking out for myself.

If I'da knowed you was in the city, I woulda come a stalkin' you this summer.

;-)

[_Jason Bourne]

Very interesting article. It was written about some Pentecostals, but you could just about substitute Mormon in for Pentecostal and at the very least some of the Mormon cultural teachings about tithing would make a perfect fit, ie: you pay your tithing to the church and God will open the windows of heaven and bless you materially.

Except you leave out the fact that LDS leaders constantly warn about going into debt and urge members to get out of debt. LDS are counseled to be prudent and careful and to live withing their means. Many ignore it but they are still counseled as such.

Undoubtedly some Mormons also got ensnared in the bad mortgage fiasco, with ARMs that came back to bite them two or three years later, with houses now valued far less than they paid for them, etc.

Undoubtedly some Mormons did and some Catholics, Baptists, Jews, Muslims, atheists, agnostics and so on. Certainly the article shows that some preachers might have helped some less prudent seek to buy a home on time when they should not have but my guess is it is rare. Really this whole mess is a cultural thing where most of us in the USA are poor at practicing delayed gratification.

[_Gadianton]

As I predicted, "WASHINGTON (AP) -- Days after it got a federal bailout, American International Group Inc. spent $440,000 on a posh California retreat for its executives, complete with spa treatments, banquets and golf outings, according to lawmakers investigating the company's meltdown" - CNN

[_The Nehor]

I don't see how this applies to LDS. We don't teach a prosperity gospel. Instead we are told that we should live within our means and not live paycheck to paycheck.

So no, I don't think you can substitute Mormons for Pentecostals.

Some LDS will suffer for making stupid decisions as I'm sure some atheists and agnostics will. That would be their fault though and they can't blame the Church's teachings for it.

[_SatanWasSetUp]

My observations is members themselves have this unwritten doctrine that paying tithing and being righteous leads to prosperity. It might have been preached from the pulpit at times, but I think it's more a cultural phenomenon in the church than a church guided doctrine. It's a real problem in the church, and this is why the leaders have been preaching stay out of debt for years and years now. I'm sure some of the finance gurus who are in leadership positions saw this fiasco coming a mile away. A bishop in our ward back in 2004 gave a talk in sacrament about finances and said he was very, very concerned about the ARMs and expensive mortgages and home equity loans that people were getting involved in. So the leaders have been giving out good practical financial advice. The problem is they are not repudiating the widespread belief that righteousness and tithe paying leads to prosperity. It doesn't matter how much tithing you pay, you cannot pay a $3500 mortgage on a $3400 monthly income. I know many TBMs here have claimed that when you pay tithing, money magically appears, and we've all heard those stories over the pulpit, but it is just not true. The leaders need to keep preaching stay out of debt, and they need to also repudiate these tithing urban legends. Money is not magic, and magically make believe money is what has led to this financial crises.