Thread for Lamanite

[_Scottie]

Facebook probably isn't the best place to discuss this, so I'm moving it here.

Your last post was

I know. So when I say "if I figure it out", I mean when I figure it out or God sends Moroni (into a room filled with other people that don't also participate in the angelic visitation), to tell me about the reformed Egyptian, then we just cool our heels and wait.

You can borrow light from my testimony if you need some. I brought extra oil.

Because I've had a spiritual experience that cannot be proven and cannot be disproven; we are at a stale mate. And I may be in the weaker position, because all I can say is, this is what God has revealed to me. But because the God of the Universe said to me, "The Book of Mormon is correct and the principles it teaches are right", then his authority supersedes any critical assertions. Would you really ask me to throw that away for any reason, if you know the Gospel brings me joy?

That last sentence I'm really interested in. And I like you which is why I'm sincerely asking.

Big UP

Would I ask you to throw away your happiness?

Some would argue that a drug addict would say the same thing. These drugs bring me great joy and if I stopped taking them, I would be miserable. However, from the outside looking in, we can see that the happiness is fake.

I, personally, don't agree with this. If the Mormon religion brings you happiness, then by all means, stay a member. I'm not out to get anybody to leave.

Now, if I may ask you a question. Does the Mormon church need to be true in order for you to consider yourself a Mormon and behave like a Mormon? Is there something particular about Mormonism that brings you happiness that you couldn't find outside of Mormonism?

[_gramps]

It seems God has become an internet Mormon, as well?

The content of His message seems to be changing. He didn't quite say it the same way to me, as He seems to have done with Lamanite.

He was much more committed to the history of the Book of Mormon record when He spoke to me.

"It happened, as it is written." That is what He said to me.

It seems, He is becoming craftier with His message these days.

Can I ask you, Lamanite, if it is not too personal, just about what year you received your message from Him?

[_krose]

The content of His message seems to be changing. He didn't quite say it the same way to me, as He seems to have done with Lamanite.

He seems to tell each person what he or she wants to hear.

[_Scottie]

The content of His message seems to be changing. He didn't quite say it the same way to me, as He seems to have done with Lamanite.

He seems to tell each person what he or she wants to hear.

Not really. It would be more accurate to say the spirit tells each person what the leaders/missionaries say you should hear.

[_Lamanite]

Would I ask you to throw away your happiness?

Some would argue that a drug addict would say the same thing. These drugs bring me great joy and if I stopped taking them, I would be miserable. However, from the outside looking in, we can see that the happiness is fake.

Your comparison is apples and oranges. The true addict begs for release from bondage but finds it almost impossible to break the chains of addiction. So if your comparison was accurate, I would beg to be released from the chains of Mormonism, whilst not being able to discontinue Sacrament meeting attendance.

Now, if I may ask you a question. Does the Mormon church need to be true in order for you to consider yourself a Mormon and behave like a Mormon? Is there something particular about Mormonism that brings you happiness that you couldn't find outside of Mormonism?

Yes, it must be true and right for me, in order to stay a Mormon. Now, I know a lot of people of different faiths who assert the truthfulness of their own religion and their own happiness. I have no reason to doubt their experience. And yes, there are things within Mormonism that bring me immense joy that are not found elsewhere.

1. A living Prophet
2. Living Apostles
3. The Book of Mormon, D&C, and PoGP
4. The Aaronic (Levitical) Priesthood
5. The Melchizedek Priesthood
6. All the ordinances pertaining to Salvation and Exaltation- Especially the Temple
7. The way Relief Society women give talks like with angelic preschool voices. OK That one really irritates me, but I've come to love a lot of Mormon culture.


But I repeat it must be TRUE. Inevitably, questions arise. I recently posted this over at MAD:

"I know in my life when there seems to be a question regarding something that has previously been confirmed by the Holy Spirit, then there is no question whatever about it. However, if I'm seeking truth that has not been confirmed or revealed by God, then it will come by study and by faith. And I will stay that course until the Spirit bestows further light and knowledge, and my testimony is increased."

It's not the scientific method...and I'm good with that.


Big UP!

Lamanite

[_Lamanite]

It seems God has become an internet Mormon, as well?

The content of His message seems to be changing. He didn't quite say it the same way to me, as He seems to have done with Lamanite.

He was much more committed to the history of the Book of Mormon record when He spoke to me.

"It happened, as it is written." That is what He said to me.

It seems, He is becoming craftier with His message these days.

Can I ask you, Lamanite, if it is not too personal, just about what year you received your message from Him?

My conversion took place from 1994ish-1997. I had a lot of questions that needed resolution during those three years. As I've said in other places I had really resisted the idea that Mormonism could be "true". I began my search for spiritualism with Eastern Philosophy, Taoism, Judaism, Christianity, Catholicism, some Protestant religions (but only because of C.S. Lewis) and then eventually found myself in Mormonisms' doorstep.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[_Lamanite]

He seems to tell each person what he or she wants to hear.

Not really. It would be more accurate to say the spirit tells each person what the leaders/missionaries say you should hear.

Since I had no leaders and no missionaries with me during my conversion that would be an impossibility.

I was converted in a basement with my Book of Mormon and Bible and no commentaries. Usually no heat and not a lot of food in those days. I sought out historical and doctrinal information on my own as I progressed. And without the Internet, I was forced to borrow all 26 volumes of the JoD and the 6 volumes of History of the Church, as well as some other gems along the way. I actually own a first edition of History of the Church now. Absolutely stunning.

If God told me what I wanted to hear, I would be nothing now. Probably just waiting to die in jail or on the streets; just like my "lifer" Brothers are doing in the Salt Lake Prison, and Denver Federal Prison. I wanted money and power. And if I could erase the God equation then I could pursue those things without remorse and with abandon.

I guess God had other plans. Like this beautiful life and family http://www.picasaweb.google.com/sionepauni

You presume too much!

Lamanite

[_krose]

He seems to tell each person what he or she wants to hear.

Not really. It would be more accurate to say the spirit tells each person what the leaders/missionaries say you should hear.

I still think I'm right. Sure, the expectations for what most church members want to hear are usually set by their leaders and peers. But once that desire is set, the person tends to get the answer s/he wants.

Some examples of what god tells selected people after fasting and prayer:

- that the attractive girl next door is to be Brother LaVar's future wife, even though LaVoy and LaVell get the same message about the same girl

- that Paul Dunn's stories are true

- that Ron and Dan Lafferty must kill their sister-in-law and her baby

[_harmony]

If God told me what I wanted to hear, I would be nothing now. Probably just waiting to die in jail or on the streets; just like my "lifer" Brothers are doing in the Salt Lake Prison, and Denver Federal Prison. I wanted money and power. And if I could erase the God equation then I could pursue those things without remorse and with abandon.

I guess God had other plans. Like this beautiful life and family http://www.picasaweb.google.com/sionepauni

You presume too much!

Lamanite

Oh, I think you'd have turned out all right. That you were seeking something other than whatever landed your Brothers in prison shows a lot about your character. You have a lot of internal strength to make the choices you have.

Don't sell yourself short. God doesn't make your choices for you. You are where you are because of who you are inside.

PS. Your family is beautiful.

[_Scottie]

Since I had no leaders and no missionaries with me during my conversion that would be an impossibility.

I was converted in a basement with my Book of Mormon and Bible and no commentaries. Usually no heat and not a lot of food in those days. I sought out historical and doctrinal information on my own as I progressed. And without the Internet, I was forced to borrow all 26 volumes of the JoD and the 6 volumes of History of the Church, as well as some other gems along the way. I actually own a first edition of History of the Church now. Absolutely stunning.

If God told me what I wanted to hear, I would be nothing now. Probably just waiting to die in jail or on the streets; just like my "lifer" Brothers are doing in the Salt Lake Prison, and Denver Federal Prison. I wanted money and power. And if I could erase the God equation then I could pursue those things without remorse and with abandon.

I guess God had other plans. Like this beautiful life and family http://www.picasaweb.google.com/sionepauni

You presume too much!

Lamanite

I wasn't speaking specifically about you, Lamanite. I don't know your conversion story enough to comment on it.

However, it sounds like you knew enough about LDS teachings that you were trying to find the answers. Who told you what to look for? I'm certain you had heard others talk about "the burning in the bosom" or "the still small voice" or any of the other buzzwords used to describe the spirit. I'm also sure you heard them equate those feelings with truth, right? Thus, you were pre-conditioned that when a feeling came, it must be the spirit.

Every halloween, 101.9 does EVP's on the radio. These are recorded voices, although nobody knows where they come from. Most people believe them to be ghosts communicating with us. Now, if they play an EVP without mentioning what it says, I usually get something completely different than what the experts think when they tell us afterwards. However, if they mention what they think it says before they play it, I can't hear anything but what they have suggested.

So, while I don't discount your spiritual experiences, would it be fair to say that you had been conditioned beforehand to interpret those feelings a certian way? If someone had not told you that a burning in the bosom is God witnessing to you, would you have thought that by yourself?