Joseph Smith the embodied Holy Ghost?

[_CaliforniaKid]

The following is from Vern G. Swanson in Line Upon Line:

There are other theories regarding the identity of the Holy Ghost attributed to Joseph Smith. The most widespread is the belief that Smith was the Holy Ghost; or more correctly stated, that he represented the emanating spirit of the Father and the Son.35 This theory arose from several sources. In a 9 March 1841 discourse Joseph Smith apparently discussed three gods who covenanted to preside over this creation: "[An] Everlasting Covenant was made between three personages before the organization of this earth, and [it] relates to their dispensation of things to men on the earth."36 These three gods, some argue, were Father Adam for the beginning of the mortal world, Christ for the Meridian of Time, and Joseph Smith for the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. Others have seen Doctrine and Covenants 135:3 as evidence for Smith being the Holy Ghost: "Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more, save Jesus only, for the salvation of men in this world than any other man that ever lived in it." Accordingly, Christ did the most to save humanity and is the second member of the Godhead; therefore, Smith, who did second to the most, is the third member.

That such notions have circulated in the church since 1844 is made clear by comments from church leaders contradicting these views. In August 1845 Orson Pratt wrote to church members responding to rumors that Joseph Smith was the Holy Ghost incarnate: "Let no false doctrine proceed out of your mouth, such, for instance that the tabernacle of our martyred prophet and seer, or of any other person, was or is the especial tabernacle of the Holy Ghost, in a different sense from that considered in relation to his residence in other tabernacles. These are doctrines not revealed, and are neither believed nor sanctioned by the Twelve and should be rejected by every Saint."37

Similarly, in January 1845, Brigham Young responded to conjectures about what Joseph Smith may have meant when Smith said, "Would to God, brethren I could tell you who I am! Would to God I could tell you what I know! But you would call it blasphemy and want to take my life."38 Young specifically countered any interpretation that Smith was the Holy Ghost: "[Y]ou have heard Joseph say that the people did not know him; he had his eyes on the relation to blood-relations. Some have supposed that he meant spirit [Holy Ghost], but it was the blood-relation. This is it that he referred to. His descent from Joseph that was sold into Egypt was direct and the blood was pure in him."39

I'm not sure I buy Brigham's explanation. Who would want to kill Joseph for claiming to be a descendant of Joseph of Egypt? Maybe Joseph Smith was referring to something like his having been anointed as king in the council of fifty... Or maybe he actually did mean to imply that he was a divine personage of some kind. After all, he says "you would call it blasphemy". According to Wikipedia, "Blasphemy is the use of the name of one or more gods, in a manner which is considered objectionable by a religious authority." That's pretty specific. Might Joseph Smith have been implying that he was a person of the Godhead?

[_Paracelsus]

And he was

- Prince of Babylon, Knight of the Black Cross, Knight of Death, Sublime Master of the Luminous Ring, Priest of the Sun, Grand Architect, Knight of the Black and White Eagle, Holy Royal Arch, Knight of the Phoenix, Knight of Iris, Priest of Eleusis, Knight of the Golden Fleece (High grades of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite)

- Doctor of the Planispheres, Hermetic Philosopher, Grand Elect of the Eons, Knight Prince of the Rose of Heredom, Grand Master of the Temple of Wisdom, Knight Noachite, Wise Siviast, Knight Supreme Commander of the Stars, Sublime Sage of the Zodiac, Shepherd King of the Hutz, Interpreter of Hieroglyphs, Sage of the Pyramids, Sublime Titan of the Caucasus, Orphic Doctor, Sublime Skald, Prince Brahmin, Guardian of the Three Fires (Grades of the Antient and Primitive Memphis-Misraim Rite)

- Knight of the Baphomet, Knight of the Six Intact Seals, Knight of the Seventh Seal, Knight of the Tetragrammaton, Knight Executioner of Florian and Dei, Knight of the Atha-nor, Venerable Naometer of the Turns Babel, Venerable Naometer of the Great Pyramid, Venerable Naometer of the Cathedrals, Venerable Naometer of the Temple of Solomon, Venerable Naometer of the Hortus Palatinus, Venerable Naometer of the Temple of Heliopolis

- Mystical Legate of Karnak, Mystical Legate of Bavaria, Mystical Legate of the Barbelognostics, Mystical Legate of Camelot, Mystical Legate of Montsegur, Mystical Legate of the Hidden Imam, Supreme Patriarch of Tomar, Supreme Patriarch of Kilwinning, Supreme Patriarch of Saint-Martin-des-Champs, Supreme Patriarch of Marienbad, Supreme Patriarch of the Invisible Okhrana, Supreme Patriarch in partibus of the Rock of Alamut

- Sublime Hierogam of the Chemical Wedding, Sublime Rodostauric Psychopomp, Sublime Referendarium of the Most Arcane Arcana, Sublime Steganograph of the Hieroglyphic Monad, Sublime Astral Connector Utriusque Cosmi, Sublime Keeper of the Tomb of Rosencreutz, Imponderable Archon of the Currents, Imponderable Archon of the Hollow Earth, Imponderable Archon of the Mystic Pole, Imponderable Archon of the Labyrinths, Imponderable Archon of the Pendulum of Pendula

- whatever

[_truth dancer]

Hi P,

You forgot King of the World!



Actually, that is a great list!

~td~

[_Uncle Dale]

the belief that Smith was the Holy Ghost
...

Here is how I heard it explained --

There are many "holy ghosts" resident in the cosmos -- since it is an emanation from the
highest "progressed beings" in existence. But we are talking about the "Holy Ghost"
associated with Eloheim -- the power that emanates from Eloheim. When Jehovah is as
"progressed" as is Eloheim now (at some future date, perhaps in the Millennium), then
Jehovah will emanate his own "holy ghost," not dependent upon that of Eloheim.

At the time Eloheim and Jehovah appeared to Joseph Smith, Jr., in 1820, their "holy ghost"
was also present in the "first vision." Since the Holy Ghost is invisible, it can only be
recognized through the effects of its power. The falling of Joseph Smith to the ground,
and other effects subsequent to his falling, demonstrate that he Holy Ghost was present
within him at that time. Thus the Book of Mormon "Trinity" were all in attendance then.

As Joseph Smith developed and progressed (through various ordinances, anointings, endowments,
etc.) the presence of the Holy Ghost within him became perfect -- that is to say, he embodied
the PRESENCE of the Holy Ghost to an infinite degree. This is not the same thing as his having
been prepared from the foundations of the world to become the receptacle of the Holy Ghost.
The pure and direct descendants of the Patriarch Joseph all have been thus prepared for such
a role -- Joseph Smith, Sr., Alvin Smith, Hyrum Smith, etc. Thus the embodiment of the Holy Ghost
is not the same thing as the Patriarchal Priesthood.

Many "fundamentalist" polygamous Mormon sects today go a step beyond all of this -- saying
that Joseph Smith, Jr. is the Holy Ghost incarnate. Heber C. Kimball may have secretly taught
such a principle -- as he was also wont to reveal in public, that the Holy Ghost was a perfected
man -- a human being with a distinct personhood, etc.

The modern LDS Church appears to have either abandoned these old doctrines, or changed
them, or submerged them in some impenetrable secrecy.Perhaps members need to first of
all receive their Second Annointings, before the relationship between Eloheim's holy ghost
and Joseph Smith, Jr. is revealed unto them.

But there is a further complication in all of this -- the modern LDS Church teaches that the
old Mormon doctrine, of the Holy Ghost being an emanation of power from Eloheim and
Jehovah was a false doctrine (and removed from the D&C many decades ago).

In my estimation, the entire subject is 100% pure and unadulterated horse manure.

UD

[_Paracelsus]

Hi P,

You forgot King of the World!



Actually, that is a great list!

~td~

Unfortunately, it is not my product.
I've collected it only, from one meticulous work of Eco. (See the last item...)

by the way it has some real link to Joseph Smith. The first two paragraph are the grades of two freemason group.