Passing the test

[_truth dancer]

I have a sense that the whole "test" thing is misconstrued. A few examples:

People honor and revere Abraham for agreeing to kill his son as if this is a great show of obedience.

I on the other hand do not get it. Abraham was willing to kill his son so he could gain exaltation. Where is the sacrifice in this? Where is the honor? His willingness was completely selfish in my opinion.

What would have been honorable in my mind is if Abraham refused to kill his son, and was willing to sacrifice his eternal life for his son. Now that is a great father! Maybe Abraham actually failed the test?

Similarly, Joseph Smith claimed an angel commanded him to screw other girls and women besides his wife. It occurs to me that he failed the test miserably.

What would have been honorable and worth celebrating is if Joseph refused to be unfaithful, and gave up his powerful position to keep the promise he made to his wife; to obey the commandments of God and Jesus Christ; and lived to be an example of honor and integrity while demonstrating the importance of marriage. Maybe he failed the test too!

Let's look at Nephi... did God really command him to cut off the head of Laban? Maybe. Or maybe God was testing him to see if he would obey the commandment to not kill, and to trust in God. Maybe God really was going to just give Laban a little heart attack if Nephi passed the test?

Of course I don't believe in the whole "God-is-testing-us" idea but even if it were true it seems so backward. In other words, you pass the test if you live dishonorably, cruely, and break the commandments. You fail the test if you live with honor, integrity, and obey the commandments.

Hmmm... :-)

~td~

[_Scottie]

Great post, TD!

I agree wholeheartedly. Only in religion is vile, disgusting behavior applauded as the most righteous and virtuous.

[_zzyzx]

Abraham failed. Joseph Smith failed. Nephi failed. Nephi, of all of them could have come up with the Lord causing Laban to have amnesia and avoided the whole 'I can kill and get away with it if i believe it is for a good cause' crap that haunts LDS, Inc. to this day.

[_Some Schmo]

Yep, excellent post, TD.

In my mind, it just goes to show how the concept of blind obedience is a manmade concept used to exert power. While they may say, "Obey god" what they really mean is "Obey what I'm telling you god wants." (Hmmmm... again, just how important is it that the prophets are speaking for god and not of their own opinion?)

It is one of the most transparent of all religious concepts, and a big 'ol smoking gun which implicates religion itself as completely manmade.

[_AlmaBound]

I have a sense that the whole "test" thing is misconstrued. A few examples:

People honor and revere Abraham for agreeing to kill his son as if this is a great show of obedience.

I think this is a misconception as well, and there is more meaning to the story than this.

Honoring and revering Abraham for believing that God would carry through with a promise to provide Abraham with a seed is the bigger test, as I see it.

Abraham would have had to believe that God would bring back his son from the dead in order to carry through with the promise.

[_truth dancer]

Hi AB,

Honoring and revering Abraham for believing that God would carry through with a promise to provide Abraham with a seed is the bigger test, as I see it.

So, Abraham was willing to kill his son so he could have more offspring, (more power)? FAIL LOL!

Abraham would have had to believe that God would bring back his son from the dead in order to carry through with the promise.

Well, we can add all sorts of things to justify any story. We can make up excuses and justify pretty much anything.

Still, I think the more honorable thing is to act in love. "Sacrificing" so one can get a reward just doesn't seem all that holy to me.

And of course it speaks to the bigger issue... what is the purpose of commandments if passing the test means you must break them?

~td~

[_AlmaBound]

So, Abraham was willing to kill his son so he could have more offspring, (more power)? FAIL LOL!

Yeah, it doesn't really make sense - he'd have to kill that which was supposed to the source of what he had asked for.

I think Abraham knew that a sacrifice was going to be provided in his son's place, though. At least he said something to that effect.

Well, we can add all sorts of things to justify any story. We can make up excuses and justify pretty much anything.

Sure. I'm just offering up an alternative explanation.

Still, I think the more honorable thing is to act in love. "Sacrificing" so one can get a reward just doesn't seem all that holy to me.

One of the things I think about that story is that Abraham may have been being asked to prove that he loved God more than his son, more than that seed and power that he wanted.

In that sense, Abraham would have had to give up the very thing he was asking for - so from that point of view it would have been a test of whether Abraham was willing to give up that power, for God.

And of course it speaks to the bigger issue... what is the purpose of commandments if passing the test means you must break them?

I don't understand. Abraham wasn't going to break the commandment, was he?

Sometimes there are things that Mormons think that I don't see, because of the difference of lens - are you talking about Adam and Eve here, or Abraham?

[_Some Schmo]

I don't understand. Abraham wasn't going to break the commandment, was he?

"Thou shalt not kill" is the commandment she was referring to, I believe.

[_AlmaBound]

I don't understand. Abraham wasn't going to break the commandment, was he?

"Thou shalt not kill" is the commandment she was referring to, I believe.

Ah got it - ok TD, I get your point. It certainly would be an extreme test, one not easily explained away with some twist of words, like "murder" or "kill." Sorry about that.

[_dblagent007]

My understanding of the "test" concept is that this life is a test to see if we will do anything that God commands. God has tested some people by commanding them to do disgusting and repugnant things to see if they are really willing to obey. Abraham was commanded to kill his son; Joseph Smith was commanded to marry other people's wives.

I think the biggest difficulty with this whole idea is that history is full of crackpots that have said that God wanted them or their people to do various disgusting and repugnant things such as weird sexual practices and, to a lesser extent, child abuse and even murder.

Viewed in this light, the odds are very high that the followers of these religious leaders are really just being deceived. Unfortunately, the followers never seem to see it this way. To them, it is always the other guy that is deceived.