Do Christians tacitly support Gay bashing?

[_The Nehor]

Should we hate and fear religious people as much as some religious types hate and fear homosexuals based off the aforementioned perverse sexual and psychological behavior?

No, but you do it anyways. SHAME ON YOU

[_Some Schmo]

Well to be a bit clearer on the issue, as a person in management position you are prohibited from using the terms wife, boyfriend or girlfriend and are required to use the term significant other when addressing employees in regard to their companions. The sole cause/reason is to avoid lawsuits from homosexuals.

Well, legal ramifications aside, I don't consider it such a huge imposition to use terms that demonstrate an awareness of reality. If, at the very least, it raises your consciousness to the fact that homosexuals exist, have equal rights, and are just as deserving of consideration as heterosexuals do, then it's a good thing.

Complaining about using a more generic term because you'd like to refer to someone's spouse using a gender specific label would be like homosexuals complaining that they can't refer to your wife as your boyfriend. Homosexual males have boyfriends; why can't they assume you do too? How would you feel about that? We're talking basic human consideration and decency.

Like I said, acknowledging that people make different choices than you make is just a sign that you're conscious of reality.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hello Mr. Rockslider,

Would you mind posting your company's policy for those who are interested can review it?

Very Respectfully,

Doctor CamNC4Me

[_Jersey Girl]

Gaz,

I'm gonna chop your post all to pieces and reply to it. Starting from the bottom. Don't ask me why. :-)

Homosexual practices are the antithesis of this. They offer no posterity, no sanctification, no doctrinal understanding. Instead of a similitude they offer a blasphemy, they offer a perversion of sacred things. A homosexual relationship is corrupt debauchery and has no place in Gods kingdom. (Rom 1:29-31, Jude 1:7)

Here is Romans 1:29 in context, picking it up at verse 22 (just cause I felt like it) and I think I'll comment in italicized text.

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,


Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

This is about pagan fertility gods.


Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:


Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Pagan temple sex. I really don't want to discuss it at length, but I will if I need to.


Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:


Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Pagan temple sex...with temple prostitutes.


Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;


Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,


Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,


Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:


Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Gaz, the above references when read in context have to do with pagan fertility rites and temple prostitutes. These relationships have nothing to do with committment or bonding. They have to do with hot jungle sex in the temple as a form of religious ritual. The above is Paul having a fit about pagan religious practices.

Having said that, nowhere in the above passage are you given permission to hate homosexuals.

.

[_Jersey Girl]

Gaz's post with my comments in italicized text and bold it just for general purposes:

Aside from the basic understanding that it is a detestable perversion, there is a doctrinal understanding that underscores the hatred of the practice.

You have permission to hate the practice, do you have permission to hate the persons who engage in it?

Christians understand that God is the Father of our spirits (Heb. 12:9, Matt. 6:9). While not all denominations accept the doctrine that we are all children of God, at the very least they understand that God is the Father of Christ. (John 20:17)

Agreed

Coupled with this undertanding is that where there is a Father in Heaven there is a Mother.

Disagree. There is no Biblical support for a heavenly mother. The Bible portrays a God who is self-existent and not created. If you have a Bible verse that refers to a heavenly mother, I would like you to share it with me.

While there is little actual doctrine taught in the standard works in regards to a Mother in Heaven, there is the example given in the way that man was placed on the earth. The statement made in regards to the creation was that man would be made in "Our image", "Male and Female created he them" (Genesis 1:26-27).

I'm going to give you my take on "created in our image". Instead of male/female, I read it to mean body, mind and spirit. But I will accept your interpretation.

When God married Adam and Eve, he placed them in a companionship that imitated the perfect relationship that exists in Heaven. He placed them in the New and Everlasting covenant of marriage, the Patriarchal Order.

The Lords government is patriarchal in nature. The Fanily unit is the center. In pre-mortality God was the Father of our spirits, and all mankind are literally brothers and sisters in the spirit. With the placing of man on earth, the Lord began by patterning earthly government after that which is heavenly. A perfect theocratic, patriarchal system was set up with Adam at the head. This system prevailed in large measure among righteous men from Adam to the establishment of Israel in her promised land.

I will accept that.

This pattern of Family as being central to the Christian Plan of Salvation is best represented by Abraham. Abraham had been baptised, but was raised in a home where his father had apostacised from the church.

Abr. chp.1
1 In the land of the Chaldeans, at the residence of my fathers, I, Abraham, saw that it was needful for me to obtain another place of residence;
2 And, finding there was greater happiness and peace and rest for me, I sought for the blessings of the fathers, and the right whereunto I should be ordained to administer the same; having been myself a follower of righteousness,....

Abraham had the gospel, but he knew that he only had a portion of it through baptism. He wanted more, he wanted the authority of the priesthood. This is what is meant by the teaching of Elijah, that the hearts of the children would turn to the Fathers.

....desiring also to be one who possessed great knowledge, and to be a greater follower of righteousness, and to possess a greater knowledge, and to be a father of many nations, a prince of peace, and desiring to receive instructions, and to keep the commandments of God, I became a rightful heir, a High Priest, holding the right belonging to the fathers.

Abraham wanted the blessings that had been given to his Fathers, they being Adam Seth, Enoch, Noah, and Melchizedek. He wanted the authority to administer in the ordinances of the gospel. This is prior to the establishment of the Priesthood of Aaron.
He wanted the blessings and ordinances of the Melchizedek priesthood, or the Priesthood after the order of the Son of God. He wanted the knowledge of the temple ordinances, his endowment. And most of all he wanted the New and Everlasting Covenant of marriage, and the blessings of Posterity.

I disagree with the above regarding wanting authority. But okay, let's move on...

God the Father is Exalted as His children embrace the Laws and Ordinances of the gospel and imitate in this life the type of life He himself leads in the eternities. We ourselves are imitating our God when we are married and have chiuldren and raise them in righteousness. There is no greater teaching that God can invite us into through covenant.

The Bible describes a God who is self-existent, not exalted, the great "I AM". Christ refers to himself in this way, later in the New Testament.

Homosexual practices are the antithesis of this. They offer no posterity, no sanctification, no doctrinal understanding. Instead of a similitude they offer a blasphemy, they offer a perversion of sacred things. A homosexual relationship is corrupt debauchery and has no place in Gods kingdom. (Rom 1:29-31, Jude 1:7)

I already addressed this in my previous post, but let me add further comments. In the above, you say that God created a government (I assume you mean natural order) wherein the family is central.

If you kick your minor child out on his ear (against the law of the land, making yourself a child abuser) how does that demonstrate that family is central in your personal life?

Homosexual relationships offer no posterity. I agree, however, neither do relationships between infertile couples. What of them?

And one more time...where in the above do you see that you are given permission to hate homosexuals (not the practice, but homosexuals as persons) or any other human being?

What does the Bible say about your responsiblities as a parent?

What does the Bible say about your responsiblity to follow the law of the land?

What does the Bible say about those who abuse children?

I have no problem whatsoever with your finding homosexual practices disgusting or whatever. I have no problem whatsoever with your willingness to throw an 18 year old out of the house if they engage in the practice in your home. I have huge issues with your stated intention to throw a minor child out of your house should he/she come out to you as gay. In that case, Gaz, you would be guilty of neglecting/abusing your child. Unless of course, your child seeks to become emancipated which would put a whole 'nuther twist on the hypothetical.

Is there any other solution that you can think of that would be agreeable to you in the hypothetical? Another solution that wouldn't put you in jail and thus leaving your remaining children without a father and your wife without a husband?

In other words, if you were to act on your stated intention, you would be abandoning your entire family which you claim is central to God's plan.

[_Yoda]

Jersey Girl brings up some excellent points. I think this should clarify the curiosity that stemmed from Dr. CamNC4me, and any others, as far as Jersey Girl's viewpoints regarding Gaz's positions.

I would like to address Dr's questions here:

Hello Ms. Liz,

The dichotomy in many-a-Christian psyche is puzzling to me. They are told, in no uncertain terms to love their fellow men, forgive their fellow men, and to embrace the sinner. As another poster pointed out Jesus Christ spent his time among the "scags", and other undesirables in society. I do not recall Him telling His followers to drown anyone, nor turn anyone out. I have to wonder where is it, exactly, do Christians get their doctrinal mandate to hate homosexuals to such an extent?

Very Respectfully,

Doctor CamNC4Me

One thing that I have notice that runs rampant in the Mormon Church, in particular, is an entitled judgmental attitude. It is something that I have always fought against, and absolutely abhor.

The reasoning behind this judgmental attitude seems to stem from scriptures such as this one:

D&C 29:12:

12 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, and it hath gone forth in a firm decree, by the will of the Father, that mine apostles, the Twelve which were with me in my ministry at Jerusalem, shall stand at my right hand at the day of my coming in a pillar of fire, being clothed with robes of righteousness, with crowns upon their heads, in glory even as I am, to judge the whole house of Israel, even as many as have loved me and kept my commandments, and none else.

In other words, if we receive the highest degree of glory in the Celestial Kingdom, we will be judges in Israel (or, rather, the men, or Melchizedek Priesthood holders...and their wives, through that extension).

That may or may not be.....BUT.....what Mormons seem to forget is that in order to get to that point, we first must be judged, and OUR judgment will come from the ONE Judge of Israel, Christ.

2 Nephi 9:15:

15 And it shall come to pass that when all men shall have passed from this first death unto life, insomuch as they have become immortal, they must appear before the judgment-seat of the Holy One of Israel; and then cometh the judgment, and then must they be judged according to the holy judgment of God.

We are NOT entitled to "play God" and be judges of others in this life.

Unfortunately, I think a lot of the hatred and entitled judgmental attitude comes from the line of thinking that since we MIGHT achieve a status of being judges in the next life, we should start doing it now. It's ludicrous...and it is a direct result of pride.

Jersey Girl asked this reflective question to Gaz:

You have permission to hate the practice, do you have permission to hate the persons who engage in it?

I will answer that question with an unequivocal No!!!

[_Jersey Girl]

Jersey Girl brings up some excellent points. I think this should clarify the curiosity that stemmed from Dr. CamNC4me, and any others, as far as Jersey Girl's viewpoints regarding Gaz's positions.

My posts above were not intended to clarify anyone's curiosity and certainly not the curiosity and mischaracterizations of Dr. what-the-hell-ever. I replied to Gaz's post above because he told me about it. You will notice that nowhere in my responses to Gaz did I need to refer to him as a piece of crap, a dickhead, hateful, or a bad parent in order to reply to his comments while attempting to get my own points across.

Go figure.

[_harmony]

One thing that I have notice that runs rampant in the Mormon Church, in particular, is an entitled judgmental attitude.

Entitlement is what we Mormons do best.

The idea seems to be that because Mormons were judged badly by their neighbors in Missouri and Nauvoo, we are entitled to judge everyone else now.

A correlated idea is the whole "Mormons are a peculiar people", which to many Mormons means we are special, a rung or two up the spiritual ladder from everyone else. That God loves us best. That we are "in the world", not "of the world", as if that's possible or desirable. That we have the gospel (which implies that no one else does), and it's our responsibility to share it with the rest of the world (which implies that no one is qualified to share it).

Entitlement. Bleah.

[_Jersey Girl]

Something to think about, Gaz:

Matthew 25

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

http://www.expedia.com/ <----They sell plane tickets. :-)

[_Paul Osborne]

When God married Adam and Eve, he placed them in a companionship that imitated the perfect relationship that exists in Heaven. He placed them in the New and Everlasting covenant of marriage, the Patriarchal Order.

Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKAW96N-Vms

Paul O