Ed Smart's comments about Jaycee Dugard's kidnapping

[_Morrissey]

Hey numbnuts, a sample size of 12 from a population of thousands is as valid as a sample size of 1. Or did you completely flunk out of statistics for morons?

I'll take that over the sample size of 0 with which critics are making these inane accusations.

I'm not basing my conclusion on a biased, unrepresentative sample. You are.

You don't need a sample size, you need common sense and an understanding of things like social/religious pressure and power dynamics within closed-knit communities or traditional societies.

Your argument is akin to someone arguing that I need to produce a representative sample of women in Afghanistan to demonstrate that not all women enjoy wearing a burka, while at the same time, based on the experience of 12 Afghan women, claiming that women enjoy wearing the burka.

Only a complete idiot would dismiss these factors and argue that polygamy within closed-knit religious communities is devoid of coercion and that all its participants are tickled pink with it and that teenage girls just love becoming wife #5 to some 50 year old man.

The FLDS IS the 21st century version of 19th century Mormon polygamy. Some differences, but many, many similarities.

No, no it's not. About the only thing they have in common is polygamy.

I'd conclude you're not serious, but I've read enough of your drivel to know you're not.

I am 100% certain that many of the polygamous brides in the FLDS community (even 12 of them) are as content as a beetle in a pile of dog s***. Someone with your brilliant powers of observation/deduction would look at them and conclude that FLDS polygamy was the most wonderful thing on earth.

However, unlike 19th Century LDS polygamy they have a substantial number of defectors complaining about horrid conditions.

And because you don't personally know of any 19th Century Mormon defectors, you conclude there weren't any? Why would you even assume that within a large population like this that there were no defectors? So your null hypothesis is that there weren't? Oh yes, that makes sense.

So, what's the material difference of a 19th century 18-year old girl becoming wife #5 to a 50 year old man and a 21st century girl? Let me guess, 19th century girls had no desire for any kind of self-fulfillment, male companionship, romance, etc.?

If you really, truly believe that there was/is no social, religious, or other coercion in polygamous religious societies, you are the one living in a fantasy, that and your powers of as an observer of the human condition is on par with Sarah Palin's.

I didn't say any such thing. Of course there was some. There's some in today's monogamous society, inside the Church and out. I am not convinced that they were worse then the people in the 1800's back east.

Some???

Yes in fact you did say there was no coercion, based on your sample size of 12. I believe you stated that they all entered into polygamous marriages on their own free will.

Given the lack of empathy you show toward gays, I am not in the least bit surprised in the lack of empathy you show women in your despicable apology for polygamy.

My sample size is small. However, most of the accusations are along the lines of, "It could have been bad, therefore it did." I don't see any sample coming from the critics.

So, until you get a good sample of Afghan women stating they object to being dehumanized, you're ready to conclude that they're content.

You're as bad as the dearly departed G.B. Wrinkly who, because he was not aware of any discontent among Mormon women, that there must not be any.

God, but you are a thicky (and I'm not referring to your penis).

You might be guilty, therefore you are. The motto of critics of the LDS Church everywhere. If there's a remote possibility that something sinister was going on....then there was.

[/quote]

No, my motto is "human dignity for everyone." I object to oppressive belief systems that objectify and dehumanize women. And I object to the morally defective who apologize for such systems.

[_The Nehor]

I'm not basing my conclusion on a biased, unrepresentative sample. You are.

You don't need a sample size, you need common sense and an understanding of things like social/religious pressure and power dynamics within closed-knit communities or traditional societies.

Your argument is akin to someone arguing that I need to produce a representative sample of women in Afghanistan to demonstrate that not all women enjoy wearing a burka, while at the same time, based on the experience of 12 Afghan women, claiming that women enjoy wearing the burka.

Only a complete idiot would dismiss these factors and argue that polygamy within closed-knit religious communities is devoid of coercion and that all its participants are tickled pink with it and that teenage girls just love becoming wife #5 to some 50 year old man.

So your assumptions about LDS culture trump my limited sample? Got it.

I don't know how Afghani women feel about the burka. I've read enough to know that MANY dislike while others think it a good thing. I have yet to see a comparative sample of Mormon women fleeing polygamy.

No, no it's not. About the only thing they have in common is polygamy.

I'd conclude you're not serious, but I've read enough of your drivel to know you're not.

More assertions. Hooray!

However, unlike 19th Century LDS polygamy they have a substantial number of defectors complaining about horrid conditions.

And because you don't personally know of any 19th Century Mormon defectors, you conclude there weren't any? Why would you even assume that within a large population like this that there were no defectors? So your null hypothesis is that there weren't? Oh yes, that makes sense.

So, what's the material difference of a 19th century 18-year old girl becoming wife #5 to a 50 year old man and a 21st century girl? Let me guess, 19th century girls had no desire for any kind of self-fulfillment, male companionship, romance, etc.?

I didn't say there were no defectors. I said there weren't many. If there were a horde of them coming forth with horrid stories of repression I probably would have heard of them because on this board they'd be paraded with fireworks. Where are they?

I would have no objection to a 21st century girl doing the same thing in those circumstances. The idea that there could be no romance, companionship, or self-fulfillment is ludicrous. The reason some Utah women could go back east to study at universities was that they could share the burden of their children with others so they could be more.....what? Self-fulfilled maybe?

I didn't say any such thing. Of course there was some. There's some in today's monogamous society, inside the Church and out. I am not convinced that they were worse then the people in the 1800's back east.

Some???

Yes in fact you did say there was no coercion, based on your sample size of 12. I believe you stated that they all entered into polygamous marriages on their own free will.

Given the lack of empathy you show toward gays, I am not in the least bit surprised in the lack of empathy you show women in your despicable apology for polygamy.

Yes, some. I said based on my sample I couldn't find any. If my ancestors didn't suffer why should I believe others did when there is no evidence? Almost everyone in the U.S.A. today enters marriage of their own free will. Does that mean there is no pressure or coercion of any kind? Nope. Unless you subscribe to the idea that it is wrong for anyone to influence anyone's decisions then I don't see what your point is. We're all under pressures of all kinds from parents, siblings, friends, spouses, etc. That doesn't deny us free will.

My sample size is small. However, most of the accusations are along the lines of, "It could have been bad, therefore it did." I don't see any sample coming from the critics.

So, until you get a good sample of Afghan women stating they object to being dehumanized, you're ready to conclude that they're content.

No, I have a decent sampling. There is unrest. There is discontent. I've read about it.

You're as bad as the dearly departed G.B. Wrinkly who, because he was not aware of any discontent among Mormon women, that there must not be any.

Uhhh...no. I know there are discontented Mormon women. You see, I've met some.

God, but you are a thicky (and I'm not referring to your penis).

Not sure what that's about. It's spelled thickie by the way, I used to live in Britain.

You might be guilty, therefore you are. The motto of critics of the LDS Church everywhere. If there's a remote possibility that something sinister was going on....then there was.

No, my motto is "human dignity for everyone." I object to oppressive belief systems that objectify and dehumanize women. And I object to the morally defective who apologize for such systems.

I'm not apologizing. I'm saying it was a good thing then. I wouldn't want it now but it worked. I saw no lack of dignity. You haven't shown me any either, just your assumptions laid out as if they were self-evident. If you're worried about human dignity you should be fighting prostitution and slavery, not a voluntarily entered marriage system that the vast majority of those who entered into it seemed to come out reasonably well. The society endured even WHEN PEOPLE COULD EASILY LEAVE.

[_DarkHelmet]

So, what's the material difference of a 19th century 18-year old girl becoming wife #5 to a 50 year old man and a 21st century girl? Let me guess, 19th century girls had no desire for any kind of self-fulfillment, male companionship, romance, etc.?

I didn't say there were no defectors. I said there weren't many. If there were a horde of them coming forth with horrid stories of repression I probably would have heard of them because on this board they'd be paraded with fireworks. Where are they?

Here's one, assuming we are allowed to use angry, bitter, exmormons with an axe to grind in our sampling. I'm sure we can find 11 more to match your sample.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/ ... index.html

[_moksha]

I didn't say there were no defectors. I said there weren't many. If there were a horde of them coming forth with horrid stories of repression I probably would have heard of them because on this board they'd be paraded with fireworks. Where are they?

The question of where reminded me of a line from the Spoon River Anthology:

"Where are Ella, Kate, Mag, Lizzie and Edith,
The tender heart, the simple soul, the loud, the proud, the happy one?—
All, all are sleeping on the hill."