Move to Utah, and Lose Your Testimony

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_Daheshist
_Emeritus
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Move to Utah, and Lose Your Testimony

Post by _Daheshist »

When I was a young Mormon, 18 years old, I overheard two women talking. One had gone to Utah for several years, and returned, and she was telling the other, "Don't go to Utah, you won't believe how Members of the Church are there!" and a third woman was walking past, she stopped, put up her arm in the "Halt!' position, and said, "Don't go! Don't go!" I later learned there was a saying among Mormons in Washington State: "Move to Utah, and Lose Your Testimony!"

Now, some Mormons move to Utah, and will tell you that the Mormons there are the most righteous people in the world. Others will move to Utah, and tell you that they did not think a people could reach such levels of hypocrisy.

I will admit this, that in UTAH there are Mormons who would never be Mormons outside of Utah. They remain Mormons in Utah for family or business reasons, but would never remain Mormons (at least active ones) in Washington State, or anywhere where Church membership could not profit them. I'm sure it is the same in all organized religions where children are "indoctrinated" into it; rather than people "converting" into it.

Mormons not raised in the Church, or raised in Mormon communities, will become quite SHOCKED :surprised: at what they find in Utah, or really any Mormon community (like Mesa, Arizona) where Mormonism has become culturalized.
_Uncle Dale
_Emeritus
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Re: Move to Utah, and Lose Your Testimony

Post by _Uncle Dale »

Daheshist wrote:...
Now, some Mormons move to Utah, and will tell you that the Mormons there are the most righteous people
in the world. Others will move to Utah, and tell you that they did not think a people could reach such levels
of hypocrisy.
...


Spent some time in Utah during the 1970s -- worked a couple of years as an RLDS associate
missionary, and saw what sort of people we were converting there -- mostly from out of
Mormonism. RLDS Seventy, Steve Shields was a typical example. He had worked in the LDS
Church Office Building and served as a translator during several General Conferences.

His loss of a Mormon testimony came gradually, but was primarily founded upon his own
experience in going through a divorce -- while both he and his ex wife remained members.
That, coupled with his study of LDS history, turned him to the Reorganized Church. He was
surprised that we did not accept him immediately. He was put through a counseling period --
was advised to clear up his family complications, etc. He eventually became a prominent
Reorganized LDS leader. I had the privilege is speaking in his behalf when he was set apart
to be ordained as an elder, as well as on subsequent occasions.

So, I think I can say I know something about Mormons losing their LDS testimonies, but
still electing to remain within the Latter Day Saint fold, so to speak.

Next to Southern Baptists, they were the most challenging cases for conversion -- the
most in need of counseling and lifestyle changes -- the most frequent backsliders, into
their previous, problematic ways.

Which is not to say that they were bad people --- just deeply brainwashed people.

UD
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
_twinkie
_Emeritus
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Re: Move to Utah, and Lose Your Testimony

Post by _twinkie »

Uncle Dale,

What is the difference between LDS and RLDS, exactly? I am curious.
_Gadianton Plumber

Re: Move to Utah, and Lose Your Testimony

Post by _Gadianton Plumber »

twinkie wrote:Uncle Dale,

What is the difference between LDS and RLDS, exactly? I am curious.

One sect knows how to throw a party!
_Uncle Dale
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Re: Move to Utah, and Lose Your Testimony

Post by _Uncle Dale »

Gadianton Plumber wrote:
twinkie wrote:Uncle Dale,

What is the difference between LDS and RLDS, exactly? I am curious.

One sect knows how to throw a party!


Reorganized elders have been known to wear brown and blue suits to sacrament meetings --
<good grief!!> -- and legend has it that in Iowa one RLDS branch had an outdated D&C in
the "little house, out behind the chapel," where pages were regularly torn out for "bodily needs."

UD

ps -- that, and we're more likely to have pecan pies than green Jello, with grated carrots at branch
luncheon parties -- gotta love them pecan pies with home-made maple nut ice cream -- yum!
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
_twinkie
_Emeritus
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:01 am

Re: Move to Utah, and Lose Your Testimony

Post by _twinkie »

Well, thanks for clearing that up for me. :wink:
_Uncle Dale
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:02 am

Re: Move to Utah, and Lose Your Testimony

Post by _Uncle Dale »

twinkie wrote:Well, thanks for clearing that up for me. :wink:


I'm reluctant to give an answer, since the original Reorganized Church is somewhat
different from its evolutions in modern times. But I'll try to give an outline of what
the Reorganized Church taught/believed in about 1860:

1. That the LDS Church had been rejected by God, for several reasons, among which was
its failure to complete the Nauvoo Temple -- but also because it place The Twelve in the
position of the First Presidency, etc.

2. That the LDS Church required a Reorganization -- and that priesthood of a sufficient
level of responsibility still were in office, in order to conduct that Reorganization.

3.That polygamy, the gathering, blood atonement, temple endowments, Danites,
Council of Fifty, Political Kingdom of God, Book of Abraham, etc. etc. were not part
of the original LDS Church and should be excluded from the Reorganization.

4. That the true successors of Joseph Smith, Jr. in the presidency were his sons and
their sons -- and that the true successors of Hyrum in the patriarch's office were
the various descendants of Joseph Smith, Sr.

5. That the Gathering and the Literal fulfillment of prophecies to the tribe of Joseph,
upon the American continent, were not part of the Church's official teachings.

6. That since the Reorganization was comprised by the joining of several different
remnants of the original LDS Church, that their various respective tenets should
be allowed, in so far as they did not impinge upon the official RLDS doctrines ---
this allowed, for example, for Rigdonites to sing different hymns than former
Whitmerites, etc.

7. That the RLDS Church was not necessarily the "one true church " -- that valid
priesthood existed among the Utah Mormons, and other splinter groups.

8. etc., etc., etc.

All of which resulted in a less authoritarian church; and one in which diverse opinions
on non-essential points of doctrine could be tolerated -- and even allowed for
discussion and debate, so long as such differences did not hinder the church.

There was a widespread (but not universal) opinion that Joseph Smith, Jr. was
a fallen prophets -- and thus, some of his later "revelations," the Book of Abraham,
etc., were not to be relied upon.

There was also a general belief that members were not necessarily the blood descendants
of Israel -- and so "tribe identifications" disappeared from patriarchal blessings.

There was a continuing disagreement as to the precise moment that "sins were remitted"
and the Holy Ghost came into a member's life -- the idea of being "born again" in a
miraculous, pre-baptismal conversion experience was not disallowed: nor was the notion
of conversion by reading the Book of Mormon.

The list goes on and on...

UD
-- the discovery never seems to stop --
_Brackite
_Emeritus
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Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:12 am

Re: Move to Utah, and Lose Your Testimony

Post by _Brackite »

Hi Daheshist,

I have lived within the State of Utah before. However, most of the time that I have lived within the State of Utah, I would think about and enjoy the Great Scenery and the mostly very nice weather there, than I would about the many Mormons that live there.
The Scenery on driving Interstate 15 freeway from Salt Lake City, Utah to Cedar City, Utah is very beautiful.


Image

Cedar City, Utah:
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_truth dancer
_Emeritus
Posts: 4792
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:40 pm

Re: Move to Utah, and Lose Your Testimony

Post by _truth dancer »

twinkie wrote:Uncle Dale,

What is the difference between LDS and RLDS, exactly? I am curious.


And... they have at least one female apostle! :-)

Yep, I met her; a very lovely woman!

~td~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
_solomarineris
_Emeritus
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Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:51 am

Re: Move to Utah, and Lose Your Testimony

Post by _solomarineris »

truth dancer wrote:
twinkie wrote:Uncle Dale,

What is the difference between LDS and RLDS, exactly? I am curious.


And... they have at least one female apostle! :-)
Yep, I met her; a very lovely woman!
~td~


Is that a good thing? The all-male Brass have tons of problem as it is. Who would involve women into this business
with his right mind?
"As I say, it never ceases to amaze me how gullible some of our Church members are"
Harold B. Lee, "Admonitions for the Priesthood of God", Ensign, Jan 1973
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