Senate passes expanded hate crimes bill

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_krose
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Re: Senate passes expanded hate crimes bill

Post by _krose »

asbestosman wrote:What the . . . ? I didn't get a lower house payment. If my bill were lowered by that much, just think of how much more tithing I'd be able to pay.

Wait a minute. Do you subtract your bills from your income before paying tithing on it?
"The DNA of fictional populations appears to be the most susceptible to extinction." - Simon Southerton
_krose
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Re: Senate passes expanded hate crimes bill

Post by _krose »

Subject: Senate passes expanded hate crimes bill

Ray A wrote:Obama is doing great things for your country.

Since Obama is no longer in the Senate, I don't get it.





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"The DNA of fictional populations appears to be the most susceptible to extinction." - Simon Southerton
_Polygamy-Porter
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Re: Senate passes expanded hate crimes bill

Post by _Polygamy-Porter »

krose wrote:
asbestosman wrote:What the . . . ? I didn't get a lower house payment. If my bill were lowered by that much, just think of how much more tithing I'd be able to pay.

Wait a minute. Do you subtract your bills from your income before paying tithing on it?
In other mo'words, do you want gross blessings, net blessing or net-net blessings.

At least that is how every Bishop that I knew got more tithes out of members.
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_asbestosman
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Re: Senate passes expanded hate crimes bill

Post by _asbestosman »

krose wrote:Wait a minute. Do you subtract your bills from your income before paying tithing on it?

That's between me and God. In any case I was joking that I would pay 100% of the saved money as extra tithing just to that PP could say he's glad I'm not able to give more money to the church he loves to mock so much.
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_EAllusion
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Re: Senate passes expanded hate crimes bill

Post by _EAllusion »

krose -

This bill is going through congress at the behest of the Obama administration. Funnily enough, the Obama administration has done virtually nothing for gay rights besides some thus far empty promises with the exception of pushing hate crime legislation. And that's the one thing they could reasonably do that I'm strongly opposed to.
_JohnStuartMill
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Re: Senate passes expanded hate crimes bill

Post by _JohnStuartMill »

EA, I think it's important to look closely at the promises Obama has made to the gay community. It's true that Don't Ask, Don't Tell hasn't been done away with yet, even though Obama has promised to axe it. But there was a caveat on that promise: he said DADT would be gone by the end of his first term. Given the intense institutional pushback he was always likely to receive from the military on this issue (don't forget the conservatism of the top brass), I think that's the only sensible promise he could have made. And he certainly hasn't broken it.
"You clearly haven't read [Dawkins'] book." -Kevin Graham, 11/04/09
_The Dude
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Re: Senate passes expanded hate crimes bill

Post by _The Dude »

Obama decided federal agencies would no longer enforce federal marijuana laws in conflict with state laws sanctioning medical marijuana. That's a step in the right direction.

Now, as for hate crime laws, I don't think we need another mitigating factor to scare the accused into plea bargaining rather than having a day in court. That's basically how this will function, won't it, as well as something that makes politicians feel better about themselves. All these incumbents can now say "I helped passed anti-hate crime laws, isn't that awesome of me? Please reelect me... unless you support hate crimes." But it isn't going to stop so-called hate crimes from happening, that's for sure.
"And yet another little spot is smoothed out of the echo chamber wall..." Bond
_EAllusion
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Re: Senate passes expanded hate crimes bill

Post by _EAllusion »

The caveat was added later, and most recently timetables have been taken off the table. He's got political capital to do it if he wanted right now. Avoiding doing it is more a calculated attempt to avoid awakening the social conservatives which might hurt other agenda he has. But by contrast, Truman getting the ball rolling on integrating the military was more politically reckless. It probably will be done, but it's clearly not a significant priority. He's also signed in some token increase in benefits for gay federal employees while intentionally withholding the important benefits. He's spoke out against DOMA at gay political events while his justice department has released legal arguments defending its necessity (to prevent incest, apparently).

Obama has developed an early pattern of hiaflutin rhetoric in favor of some issue with some token, symbolic moves in favor of it while the substance of his policy has been the exact opposite. It's really an open question at this point whether his administration's stances towards gays is going to turn out any different in the big picture.
_JohnStuartMill
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Re: Senate passes expanded hate crimes bill

Post by _JohnStuartMill »

EAllusion wrote:The caveat was added later, and most recently timetables have been taken off the table.

Even if the original promise was to end DADT, as long as he never added the adverb "immediately", he hasn't broken it.

I hadn't heard that timetables are out the window. If true, that is indeed disconcerting, although it doesn't necessarily indicate that the administration doesn't have a plan to end the policy.

He's got political capital to do it if he wanted right now.
This is the conventional wisdom, and there's interesting figures to support it, but I ultimately don't think this is true. I don't think that the 75% support in the general populace for ending DADT is the limiting factor here; I think that the likely reaction of conservative military brass being told what to do by a President who never served is what's holding Obama back. If Obama were smart, he'd wait to gain rapport with military leaders (perhaps by displaying foreign policy shrewdness, as is likely to manifest itself within the next year or two) before springing an executive order against DADT on them.

Avoiding doing it is more a calculated attempt to avoid awakening the social conservatives which might hurt other agenda he has.
This would be a pretty silly calculation on Obama's part, because the 25% of voters who support DADT are the people who would never vote for him anyway, and who are unlikely to even consider voting for Congressional Democrats.

But by contrast, Truman getting the ball rolling on integrating the military was more politically reckless. It probably will be done, but it's clearly not a significant priority.
This may sound heartless, but it sounds to me like Obama has his priorities straight. Entitlement reform and foreign policy are too important to jeopardize at this juncture. Equality for gays is very, very important, but the first two areas I mentioned are much more determinative even of the average gay American's future.

He's also signed in some token increase in benefits for gay federal employees while intentionally withholding the important benefits. He's spoke out against DOMA at gay political events while his justice department has released legal arguments defending its necessity (to prevent incest, apparently).
Well, the DoJ is legally obligated to do that sort of thing. The fact that the Department's brief in favor of DOMA was so poorly argued is actually evidence that it is indeed on the chopping block.

It's really an open question at this point whether his administration's stances towards gays is going to turn out any different in the big picture.
I agree, and this is actually the point that I was hoping to get you to agree with. Time will tell.
"You clearly haven't read [Dawkins'] book." -Kevin Graham, 11/04/09
_badseed
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Re: Senate passes expanded hate crimes bill

Post by _badseed »

Polygamy-Porter wrote:Sweet justice!
Me the loathsome and filthy apostate gets a blessing in the form of a lowered house payment and the active Joseph loving Mormon boy gets nada.

BOOYEAH!

This loathsome apostate (me) received no such 'blessing.' I am unsure why you were so lucky but I doubt it had much if anything to do with 'justice.'
Crawling around the evidence in order to maintain a testimony of the Book of Mormon.

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