Are You BIC or a Convert?

[_Blixa]

I already put this on the first BIC/Convert thread, but here it is, too:

Hmmm...I thought BIC meant "born in the covenant," i.e., to temple-married parents. My parents were not married in the temple and were/are "inactives." I sporadically attended as a child and completely stopped attending around age 15 or 16. I can't say that I ever bought into it much. I never had a strong belief in god, and was completely put off by the sexism and racism, not to mention the absence of aesthetics. Even in grade school I thought the Book of Mormon read like a bad 19thC novel. My family had some experience with mexican and middle eastern culture, so I knew enough at an early age to find the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham pretty unconvincing, too.

Also the second-class citizen dynamics of coming from an "inactive family" in the suburbs of 60's/70's Salt Lake was also not much of an encouragement to identify with Mormonism.

[_Ray A]

That study (on this thread or another one) proves what I've been saying for years, converts almost never "get it".

Can you expound on that, Gad? I must have missed it previously. I suppose in the same way a BIC would not understand what it's like growing up Catholic.

[_harmony]

Not where I live. And where I live most are converts and I know of none who feel this way. Many leaders here are converts as well. Of the past five bishops of my ward 3 were converts. The current SP is son of a convert and grew up in our area. I guess since my family has been LDS since the 1840s and 50s I might still be considered BIC. My wife is a convert and nobody here thinks I married beneath me. Most who know me think she married beneath her!

In my ward, if you aren't DUP, it used to be that you might just as well figure out early that you're never going to invited into the circles that include the SP, the HC, the Bishopric or any of their wives. Their sons will never date your daughters; their daughters will never go out with your sons. You're trailer trash, even if you don't live in a trailer. The only thing that can raise you above trailer trash is if you have money and lots of toys.

Status was granted based on how prominent your Utah relatives were. If you were a convert, you were called to the nursery, not the presidency. Callings were changed by the presidency of one auxilliary moving to the presidency of another auxilliary, without ever breaking stride.

For my first 37 years in the church, this was the norm in my ward.

Currently, my bishop is a good and humble man who does not follow the old network. However, that just means the network marginalizes him too. I love him. His heart and his faith make him a Saint. His wife is a gem. And she plays pinocle and taught him, so we're marginalized together!

[_MsJack]

For guys like us, it's funny to listen to apologists (some of them converts) try to explain we never understood it in the first place.

I've had a few apologists try to tell me the same thing. Someone at MADB tried to tell me that I don't understand the nature and purpose of Sacrament meeting... LOL!

If a degree from your official university with As in all religion classes isn't enough to help me correctly understand the basic principles of your religion, maybe your religion is too damn complicated.

[_Seven]

I always felt growing up in the church that converts had more powerful testimonies than BIC members. In talking with other TBMs who are BIC, it seems that there is more of a struggle in gaining that type of testimony when you've been taught the church is true since nursery. I used to appreciate the talks by GA's who would describe the process of gaining a testimony as line upon line, and that it probably won't be a powerful event.
It was the converts who had the more profound experiences that made me feel as if something was wrong with me for not receiving the same witness.

RayA wrote:
When I joined I was told by several missionaries that converts were "more valiant" because they had to find the gospel, but that doesn't make much sense. If you were valiant, then you should be born in the Church, not out of it. Another explanation for BIC members was that they were "so used to the Spirit" that they had trouble recognising it because they grew up with it, whereas for the convert it was a new experience.

I heard the same things! LOL

But, I think it's probably more difficult for BIC members to leave the church than it is for converts.

RayA wrote:
I agree. When I left I virtually went back to my "normal life" (what is normal?) before joining. I guess for a BIC even just drinking his/her first coffee or alcohol would seem like a capital offence (to those who never previously indulged).

Yep. Since my disaffection, I once had to drink coffee for "medicinal" purposes (after having surgery) and still felt as if I was breaking a law. My inactive Mormon sisters were so excited to bring me their favorite Starbucks drinks in the hospital, but the whole time I couldn't really enjoy it. (and it tasted really really good) I still don't drink alcohol and never will. I would probably not fit in at an exMo gathering. In contrast, my convert cousin who left the church immediately went back to drinking coffee and alcohol without a second thought.

[_Ray A]

I still don't drink alcohol and never will.

And nothing at all wrong with that. I know many Muslims who, although they are not literal believers, and some even unbelievers, will not touch alcohol because it's forbidden in their tradition. Mind you, they often make up for that by being heavy smokers. Lapsed Muslims tend to hang on to cultural-religious traditions much more than lapsed Mormons, probably too because there's no excommunication in Islam. Even if an unbeliever, you're not cut-off from the community.

I would probably not fit in at an exMo gathering.

I think you'll find there are Exmos who feel the same as you do.

[_moksha]

Not quite sure. Mormonism runs in the family (so did Catholicism for more than a millennium), but I was not born in a covenant. Went with the neighbors to Church, but never with my parents. Exited before being old enough to be a priest and returned many years later, like the Prodigal Son.

Had I been born in the covenant and then exited, I could have been said to, "flick my BIC".

[_MCB]

ex-Hostage would describe many of us "others"

Raised in Hancock County Illinois. My father's family has deep roots in the county. Apparently some of my ancestors were briefly Mormon, but left the church in 1844. For some strange reason, TBM's seem to hate me because of this. "Why" is lost in history.

I would have to say that I am recovering from "hysterical indifference".

[_Jason Bourne]

In my ward, if you aren't DUP, it used to be that you might just as well figure out early that you're never going to invited into the circles that include the SP, the HC, the Bishopric or any of their wives. Their sons will never date your daughters; their daughters will never go out with your sons. You're trailer trash, even if you don't live in a trailer. The only thing that can raise you above trailer trash is if you have money and lots of toys.

Status was granted based on how prominent your Utah relatives were. If you were a convert, you were called to the nursery, not the presidency. Callings were changed by the presidency of one auxilliary moving to the presidency of another auxilliary, without ever breaking stride.

For my first 37 years in the church, this was the norm in my ward.

Currently, my bishop is a good and humble man who does not follow the old network. However, that just means the network marginalizes him too. I love him. His heart and his faith make him a Saint. His wife is a gem. And she plays pinocle and taught him, so we're marginalized together!

You know I have been wondering about this. Maybe it Utah and proximity to Utah. Do you have lots of Utah transplants? We have some (I am one). And for a long time most leaders came from this batch. There are two large companies in our area that many early members moved from the west to work for. There were few members here then (50s and 60s). So the leaders came from them cause that is all there was. But the church really grew here in the 70s and 80s. But still we are about as far from Utah as you can be for the lower 48 states. So maybe that is why we do not have as much of what you describe.

[_MCB]

Yeah- the closer you get to Utah the worse it gets. I'm living in Wisconsin now, and their history with the Strangeites, plus a militant Native population makes life easier. I understand that with Utah transplants back home since the temple was rebuilt, things have gotten much worse.