Are You BIC or a Convert?

[_Nightlion]

In my ward, if you aren't DUP, it used to be that you might just as well figure out early that you're never going to invited into the circles that include the SP, the HC, the Bishopric or any of their wives. Their sons will never date your daughters; their daughters will never go out with your sons. You're trailer trash, even if you don't live in a trailer. The only thing that can raise you above trailer trash is if you have money and lots of toys.

Status was granted based on how prominent your Utah relatives were. If you were a convert, you were called to the nursery, not the presidency. Callings were changed by the presidency of one auxilliary moving to the presidency of another auxilliary, without ever breaking stride.

We were considered trailer trash in East Millcreek even though my dad was President Grant's nephew by plural marriage links. I think it was fast pitch softball envy in the 50's and 60's. Those who were great players on our All Church Team were marginalized, like my dad, while those who could not play well enough to make the team got all the top spots in LDS leadership. REALLY! Yeah, I am certain of it.

Or it could have been education and a lack of divorce in you family tree. Everyone had prominent family ties. I don't think there were any converts in my old ward.

[_Thama]

You know I have been wondering about this. Maybe it Utah and proximity to Utah. Do you have lots of Utah transplants? We have some (I am one). And for a long time most leaders came from this batch. There are two large companies in our area that many early members moved from the west to work for. There were few members here then (50s and 60s). So the leaders came from them cause that is all there was. But the church really grew here in the 70s and 80s. But still we are about as far from Utah as you can be for the lower 48 states. So maybe that is why we do not have as much of what you describe.

Where I grew up, central NC, it was like this as well. Leaders were locals and converts just as much as they were Western transplants. I never saw the sorts of problems with arrogant leadership that a lot of Mormons who have spent time in the Utah sphere of influence talk about, and my parents, both converts, were constantly in presidencies at both the ward and stake level.

[_MCB]

Social class and race and ancestry and status within the church mean a lot to LDS. That is the reason why it is such a holdout against NCLB. Plus the more education one gets in non-Mormon colleges and universities the more likely one is to leave the church or at least become inactive. So it pays to keep the sheep (and even ignorant by-standers) away from high-level literacy.

I was more than marginalized in W Kansas. I had nightmares, identifying with the cows on trucks heading for packing plants.

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

I was converted at 14 but not by missionaries. I started going to Mutual with neighbor kids and ended up dragging my entire family into the church. Later, during my rabid genealogist phase, I was amazed to find Nauvoo ancestors. It appears that they trekked to Utah but then some of them trekked on to the California gold fields and left the church. I wanted so badly to be related to David O. McKay, but instead tied in with the Ezra Taft Benson family. At the time I thought it was a good thing.

[_beastie]

I don't think a poll like this will reveal the same trend due to the fact that this is a self selected group - exmormons talking about Mormonism on the internet. I think that self selected group will always have more BIC exmormons than convert exmormons due to the fact that it is usually more difficult for BIC exmormons to completely extricate themselves from Mormonism due to social, emotional, and familial ties. It's easier for a convert to extricate him/herself and return to "normal", with one exception - converts whose families also converted and established long term ties with the LDS church, like mine. Even though I'm a convert, I still have familial ties to the church because all of my family eventually converted over a two year time span, and most of my family (with the exception of one sister) remain active, faithful LDS.

It's like getting a divorce. If you divorce your spouse before you have had children with said spouse, the extrication process is easier and cleaner. You can really just "walk away" and return to "normal", after a period of mourning and processing, of course. But if you have children, then you can't ever really walk away and just start over. The children keep you tied to your exspouse.

It's the same with LDS family members. They keep us tied to Mormonism, and those ties make it more difficult to just "walk away". So I suspect that any exmormon who still has LDS family will be more prone to participate in internet discussions.

[_Yoda]

I don't think a poll like this will reveal the same trend due to the fact that this is a self selected group - exmormons talking about Mormonism on the internet. I think that self selected group will always have more BIC exmormons than convert exmormons due to the fact that it is usually more difficult for BIC exmormons to completely extricate themselves from Mormonism due to social, emotional, and familial ties. It's easier for a convert to extricate him/herself and return to "normal", with one exception - converts whose families also converted and established long term ties with the LDS church, like mine. Even though I'm a convert, I still have familial ties to the church because all of my family eventually converted over a two year time span, and most of my family (with the exception of one sister) remain active, faithful LDS.

It's like getting a divorce. If you divorce your spouse before you have had children with said spouse, the extrication process is easier and cleaner. You can really just "walk away" and return to "normal", after a period of mourning and processing, of course. But if you have children, then you can't ever really walk away and just start over. The children keep you tied to your exspouse.

It's the same with LDS family members. They keep us tied to Mormonism, and those ties make it more difficult to just "walk away". So I suspect that any exmormon who still has LDS family will be more prone to participate in internet discussions.

Beastie makes some excellent points here.

This can also be further applied to those of us who stay active in the Church to "keep the peace", even if we don't believe everything that the Church teaches.

Some choose not to divorce "for the sake of the children". Some choose not to leave Mormonism "for the sake of the family."

As far as the poll goes, I answered "BIC", but I probably should have answered "other".

I was thinking that "BIC" meant "Born in the Church" instead of "Born in the Covenant". My father was a convert to the Church. My parents were married for four years, and were later sealed in the temple, with me, at 18 months. My little brother, who is nine years younger than I am, was "Born in the Covenant". And, I grew up in the Church.

Actually, my husband and I are at odds this morning. He, my son and daughter, just went to Church, and I stayed home. My Fibromyalgia is acting up, and I just couldn't get myself in nylons and a dress, wrestle my hyperactive son during Sacrament Meeting, and sit through the other two meetings today. (I know Harm understands this one. LOL)

[_MsJack]

I just couldn't get myself in nylons and a dress, wrestle my hyperactive son during Sacrament Meeting, and sit through the other two meetings today. (I know Harm understands this one. LOL)

Put me down on the understand list! I only visit the LDS church once a month, but my three year-old daughter is so rowdy that I've taken to taking her into the nursery room with a box of toys, flipping on the speaker, and listening to Sacrament meeting from there.

I loathe Relief Society. My favorite meeting is Sunday School, when someone else is watching my kid and I can just lean on my husband's shoulder and relax.

Anyhow though, I can sympathize with not wanting to do all that when you're not feeling well. Feel better, liz.

[_Yoda]

That means a lot, Bridget, thanks!

:)

[_krose]

I agree that rather than the "BIC" option, which relies on the technicality of your parents having been temple married at your birth, the poll should count those born or raised as LDS.

It's the same with LDS family members. They keep us tied to Mormonism, and those ties make it more difficult to just "walk away". So I suspect that any exmormon who still has LDS family will be more prone to participate in internet discussions.

You are so right about that. I am permanently tied to the church, because every one of my huge family (as well as my wife's smaller one) is deeply entrenched in the church. I could divorce them, but I really like them and prefer to keep them in my life. "Can't leave it alone," indeed.

As for my own answers to the poll:

BIC, pedigree back to Kirtland... g-g-gramps had 4 wives and wrote a popular hymn