Could an atheist have written the Book of Mormon?

[_Bond James Bond]

I clicked on this thread hoping to find out that the Book of Mormon had been ghost written by Richard Dawkins under the alias Solomon Spalding. I hoped Uncle Dale had finally been able to reconstruct the perfect Book of Mormon authorship scenario for critics by proving that the Book of Mormon wasn't a translation of ancient gold plates of a migration to America, but was written by a prominent modern-day atheist...possibly as part of a Communist plot involving Opus Dei and the Freemasons (who of course allowed Dawkins to use their time machine to account for a 19th century authorship).

I was disappointed. ;)

[_zzyzx]

Fiction is fiction. Any really good creative writer who is organized could do it. A Leon Uris, Dan Brown or even a hack writer with motivation could produce it. Plagarizing many Bible passages and even whole chapters... making up names and stories that parallel the area one lives in and Bible stories.

Not that difficult for the creative mind.

If someone else had done it they probably would not have done the 'magic spectacles' and 'magic peepstone' baloney though.

[_MCB]

If someone else had done it they probably would not have done the 'magic spectacles' and 'magic peepstone' baloney though.

I disagree. A good satirist would have had fun with describing reading-glasses as magic decoders.

[_Uncle Dale]

...
A good satirist would have had fun with describing reading-glasses as magic decoders.

So far as I can discern, all of the magical devices in Spalding's Roman story
and in the Book of Mormon are his inventions -- or adaptations from other
sources, whether meant for satirical purposes or not.

1. Lobsaka's flying machine -- an adaptation of the flying ability of Quetzalcoatl,
the Aztec god of the air -- taken from Clavigero

2. The Liahona -- an adaptation of the magical Divine gift that suddenly
appears in the camp of the migrating Aztecs -- taken from Clavigero

3. Jaredite submersibles -- taken from Southey's mention of Merlin's submarine,
coupled with the biblical ark of Noah

4. Shining stones -- taken from Southey's mention of the shining stone in
Merlin's submarine -- coupled with traditions of a light in Noah's ark

5. Seer-stone -- taken from Solomon Spalding's own Revolutionary War
experiences among necromancers in Rhode Island -- probably including
the Stafford family, who later settled next door to Joseph Smith, Sr.

6. Interpreters -- probably an adaptation of the Roman story's seer-stone,
but also related to the "urim" which provided light in Noah's ark


Did I miss any?

UD

[_MCB]

UD, you outshine me by far. Well qualified to be a professor. Now you are assigning me to read Southey?

[_Uncle Dale]

UD, you outshine me by far. Well qualified to be a professor. Now you are assigning me to read Southey?

Homework:
http://olivercowdery.com/texts/1806Clv1.htm

http://olivercowdery.com/texts/1805sout.htm

But especially here:
http://olivercowdery.com/texts/1805sout.htm#comments



Uncle Dale

[_MCB]

Homework assignment in progress.

On the issue of secrets: Frodo taught me that anonymity can be addictive.

[_Uncle Dale]

Homework assignment in progress.
...

Here's a short-cut to the origin of the Liahona, in Clavigero:
http://olivercowdery.com/texts/1806Clv1.htm#pg154a

Proceeding from the country of the Zapotecas towards the south ...
in the year 1196 they [the first Aztecs] arrived at the celebrated city
of Tula.

In their journey from Chicomoztoc to Tula, they stopped a while in
Coatlicomac, where the tribe was divided into two factions, which
became perpetual rivals, and alternately persecuted each other. This discord
was occasioned, as they say, by two bundles which miraculously appeared
in the midst of their camp ... they prized them more than the
precious stone.

They who appropriated to themselves the gem were those, who, after the
foundation of Mexico called themselves Tlatelolcas... they who took the pieces
of wood were those who in future bore the name of Mexicans...

Notwithstanding this dissention both parties travelled always together
for their imaginary interest in the protection of their god...

And a follow-up from Sorenson, in "Book of Mormon Authorship Revisited"

...The Título de los Señores de Totonicapán, another lineage history, speaks
of "the precious gift which our father Nacxit gave us; it will be useful to
us, because we have not yet found the place in which we are going
to settle" (p. 205); -- in other words, it served as an instrument to receive
divine guidance as to where they should travel and settle. Carmack,
following Nicholson, says that "this sacred symbol of power corresponds
precisely" with the sacred bundle revered by descendants of the Toltecs
in central Mexico. There it consisted of green stones (jade or turquoise) set
into pieces of wood with holes bored in them and wrapped in cloth mantles; it
symbolized "the hearts of [their] gods" (see Carmack, "Toltec Influence," 73).

I find the similarities to the Liahona and the " interpreters" of
the Nephites striking. The Liahona was a guide for Lehi's party when they had
"not yet found the place in which they were to settle." The interpreters were
sacred stones set in a device to facilitate their handling. Both instruments
were divine gifts...

Of course Sorenson does not mention that Clavigero was the source for
the Toltec/Aztec tradition of the sacred gift that appeared suddenly in
the camp of the two rival factions, migrating to a new home under the
direction of their God.



Of course Sorenson does not mention that this tradition was made available
to readers like Solomon Spalding, by writers like Robert Southey, who re-told
Aztecs' stories in his fictionalized "Madoc" epic -- long before the Book of Mormon.

It's kinda like saying "I got this book from my ancestors," without bothering
to mention that it was your uncle who gave it to you, at a certain date, etc.

Sorenson simply leaves out the early 19th century "middle-man" writer(s),
and tells us how the 1830 Book of Mormon Liahona story INFLUENCED BACKWARDS IN
TIME, the creation of preColumbian American religious traditions.

Neat trick, Bro. Sorenson!

UD

[_Danna]

There is also a Urim and Thummim in Ethan Smith:

Before the Indian Archimagus officiates in making the supposed holy fire for the yearly atonement for sin, the Sagan (waiter of the high priest) clothes him with a white ephod, which is a waistcoat without sleeves. In resemblance of the Urim and Thummim, the American Archimagus wears a breast plate made of a white conch-shell with two holes bored in the middle of it, through which he puts the ends of an otter skin strap, and fastens a buck horn white button to the outside of each, as if in imitation of the precious stones of the Urim.

Big difference though is that E. Smith and the guy he is quoting (Adair) knew that the breastplate was a small plaque, and not a warrior-style breast-plate. Spaulding, an educated man like Ethan, would also have known what the breast-plate and Urim and Thummim are; and that the U&T were kept inside the breast-plate which was essentially a folded over piece of cloth (forming a pouch) with stones set on it. They would also have known that the U&T were probably a form of 'casting lots' to answer yes or no questions - not translation devices.

I doubt strongly that Spaulding intended the interpreters to be the U&T - they were likely a magical device of his own invention (or maybe borrowed from somewhere) - magic spectacles. Spalding would not have considered giving his refugees the U&T unless they included the high priest, or at least Levites.

I think when Phelps made the association after publication, Joseph and Oliver, at least, seized on what they thought was a fortunate similarity. Too bad they were misled by the KJV discription of the 'breast-plate' resulting in both Oliver (quoting Joseph) and Lucy describing it as a martial breast-plate. (Mother Smith's claim to have actually felt it through a cloth wrapping does not do much for her credibility!)

In your analysis, Uncle D, what do you think of the riff on 'seership' in 8 Mosiah? To me it smacks of Joseph attempting an early expansion of his role as seer - possibly Joseph made an insertion to the main text? Other small bits concerning prophecies of himself have the same flavor. If Joseph did make the odd 'off the cuff' insertion, particularly while he was working in short spurts slowly and painfully from memory during the Book of Lehi, this would have been another reason for concern when the 116 pages were lost. Even if they had retained the original, minor insertions here and there would not have been possible to correct. This would have added to friction between Sidney and Joseph.

[_Uncle Dale]

...
I doubt strongly that Spalding intended the interpreters to be the U&T -
they were likely a magical device of his own invention (or maybe borrowed
from somewhere) - magic spectacles. Spalding would not have considered
giving his refugees the U&T unless they included the high priest, or at least
Levites.

I think that Spalding was fascinated with the tradition of the philosopher's
stone -- as being the light in Noah's ark. As I mentioned here earlier, this
tradition was footnoted in Southey's "Madoc," practically the only pre-BoM
grand epic of preColumbian American colonization by Christians, etc.

The shining philosopher's stone in Noah's ark (or in Merlin's submarine)
overlaps in arcane tradition with the biblical urim and thummim. But of
course Spalding never saw any such thing. What he did see (probably in
Rhode Island) was the use of a peepstone -- which the local magician
perhaps also equated with the powers of the biblical urim & thummim.
Given these two overlapping magical things (peepstone and ark stone),
I think it was a natural thing for Spalding to envision something like the
urim & thummim in ancient America. Just like his fellow Dartmouth graduate
and fellow New England Congregationalist minister, Ethan Smith, we can
assume that Spalding was familiar with Adair's book, and with the
notion that American Indian medicine men preserved urim & thummim
traditions from ancient Israel.

Thus, I think that Spalding's insertion of magical translation stones into
his Book of Mormon narrative was a product of more than one of his
reading sources. He probably enjoyed amalgamating bits and pieces of
diverse traditions into his fiction -- but writing in such a way that his
literary sources remained more or less untraceable.

I think when Phelps made the association after publication, Joseph and Oliver,
at least, seized on what they thought was a fortunate similarity. Too bad they
were misled by the KJV discription of the 'breast-plate' resulting in both Oliver
(quoting Joseph) and Lucy describing it as a martial breast-plate. (Mother Smith's
claim to have actually felt it through a cloth wrapping does not do much for her
credibility!)

The Smiths went too far with their literalism -- but perhaps Spalding contributed
to their error by inserting bronze age warriors' metal corselets into his story.
Such breastplates are discovered by the Nephites among Jaredite ruins. While
I think that basic discovery story is Spalding's, it was perhaps over-written
and expanded upon by Oliver Cowdery and/or Sidney Rigdon. The ignorant
Smith family were fooled into thinking an Israelite high priest's ceremonial
garments were something like ancient metal armor.

In your analysis, Uncle D, what do you think of the riff on 'seership' in 8 Mosiah?
To me it smacks of Joseph attempting an early expansion of his role as seer -
possibly Joseph made an insertion to the main text?

Possibly a Cowdery-Smith plan to improve upon Rigdon's text, which they did
not execute very well. They screwed up the interface between the lost Book
of Lehi and the retained Book of Mosiah in several ways -- all of which indicate
a hurried, poorly executed re-write and redaction of Spalding's narrative.

Other small bits concerning prophecies of himself have the same flavor. If
Joseph did make the odd 'off the cuff' insertion, particularly while he was
working in short spurts slowly and painfully from memory during the Book of
Lehi, this would have been another reason for concern when the 116 pages
were lost. Even if they had retained the original, minor insertions here and
there would not have been possible to correct. This would have added to
friction between Sidney and Joseph.

There was some sort of trouble in 1828 -- and the Book of Mormon text (and BoC text)
offers us scant clues as to what exactly that trouble was. The end result,
however, was that Smith controlled the "Gold Bible Company," rather than
Cowdery or Rigdon. We will probably never know all the details -- but I
suppose there was some sort of subtle power struggle, which Smith won.

UD