2nd Watson Letter just found!'

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_Joey
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2nd Watson Letter just found!'

Post by _Joey »

Apparently, and mysteriously, the fax of the second Watson letter has now been found according to a Greg Smith at the Mad board. Some poster "Dan" seems to have gotten under everyones skin by asking logical questions. Peterson had just, a few days ago, given the history of how the letter was permanently lost some 15 yrs ago?

Don't know if this is just bs but it seems to have been found in the files of Sorenson. If this is not BS, it is quite interesting as to the timing and pressure these questions have generated. I can't link to the thread but it is one started by a Dangb.

Oh the irony!
"It's not so much that FARMS scholarship in the area Book of Mormon historicity is "rejected' by the secular academic community as it is they are "ignored". [Daniel Peterson, May, 2004]
_DaniteDan
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Re: 2nd Watson Letter just found!'

Post by _DaniteDan »

Who was Watson and why is this letter important. I guess there was a first letter. Briefly, what was that about?
If one is forever cautious, can one remain a human being?"

Alexander Solzhenitsyn
_Ray A

Re: 2nd Watson Letter just found!'

Post by _Ray A »

Greg Smith's post.

On the second Watson letter:

I have a contact at the FARMS office, who located a copy of the letter from John Sorenson's files (their offices moved fairly recently, and that's how it got mislaid). It is still on the original fax paper from the First Presidency's office, and it has a note on it discussing a bit more about the provenance.

My contact is snail-mailing me the copy, and I have permission to post it to the FAIR wiki when it arrives. It was mailed today; it will probably be up by early next week depending on the vagaries of the US and Canadian postal services.

The text is reportedly as printed in the FARMS Review article by Hamblin. It is also made clear by an annotation on the fax that the First Presidency wished to clarify the impression left by Bro. (now Elder) Watson's first letter.

But, doubters can soon see the text for themselves, it seems.

I will try to remember to post an announcement in this thread when it is up. I expect the FAIR blog or newsletter will also contain a mention.

Best,

Greg Smith
FAIR wiki managing editor
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: 2nd Watson Letter just found!'

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Wow. If I had seen this, I would have definitely considered putting it in my Top Ten list. This is very important, I think. I was stunned to learn from Scott Lloyd that the Brethren were actually consulted on this. I had previously been under the impression that Mopologetic doctrine on the matter was that the letter(s) were strictly the opinion of Bro. Watson. But, if Greg Smith's letter turns out to be legit, then it would seem that this is confirmation from the Brethren themselves that they side with the apologists on this issue.

All that said, I am far more interested in seeing the letter that Prof. Hamblin mailed (or faxed?) to Brother Watson. The fact that the letter is in the form of a fax means that there should be a copy. At base, I am far more interested in seeing just what, exactly, Bill Hamblin said to get the General Authorities to revise hundreds of years of Church doctrine.

In any event, I'll be looking forward to next week!
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Bond James Bond
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Re: 2nd Watson Letter just found!'

Post by _Bond James Bond »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Wow. If I had seen this, I would have definitely considered putting it in my Top Ten list. This is very important, I think. I was stunned to learn from Scott Lloyd that the Brethren were actually consulted on this. I had previously been under the impression that Mopologetic doctrine on the matter was that the letter(s) were strictly the opinion of Bro. Watson. But, if Greg Smith's letter turns out to be legit, then it would seem that this is confirmation from the Brethren themselves that they side with the apologists on this issue.

All that said, I am far more interested in seeing the letter that Prof. Hamblin mailed (or faxed?) to Brother Watson. The fact that the letter is in the form of a fax means that there should be a copy. At base, I am far more interested in seeing just what, exactly, Bill Hamblin said to get the General Authorities to revise hundreds of years of Church doctrine.

In any event, I'll be looking forward to next week!


I submit a nomination for "Honorable mention". :)
Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded.-charity 3/7/07

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_Joey
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Re: 2nd Watson Letter just found!'

Post by _Joey »

Oh it seems that it only gets better. There is a poster there who made the most intelligent and common sense suggesting f having all the parties to the second Watson letter merely show up on the board to discuss! Hadn't thought about that, but what a great idea for accountability and record. Now, his own fellow members are trying to get him banned from the board! You gotta the Mormon faithfull!
"It's not so much that FARMS scholarship in the area Book of Mormon historicity is "rejected' by the secular academic community as it is they are "ignored". [Daniel Peterson, May, 2004]
_zzyzx
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Re: 2nd Watson Letter just found!'

Post by _zzyzx »

For those of us who don't keep up on a lot of goings on with this stuff, what is The Watson Letter? I don't remember it being in the Priesthood and Sunday School manuals...
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you do criticize them you'll be a mile away and you'll have their shoes.
_Dwight Frye
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Re: 2nd Watson Letter just found!'

Post by _Dwight Frye »

For those who, for whatever reason -- laziness, intellectual neglect, intransigence, invincible ignorance, whatever -- are unfamiliar with the story of the Watson Letter(s), FAIR has a bare bones write-up of the contoversy:

http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon_geography:Statements:First_Presidency_Letter#Initial_letter
"Christian anti-Mormons are no different than that wonderful old man down the street who turns out to be a child molester." - Obiwan, nutjob Mormon apologist - Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:25 pm
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: 2nd Watson Letter just found!'

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

Hello Everyone,

The backpeddling by apologists on this matter would make Mr. Usain Bolt a little more than envious! Oh my! I must feel a little frisky this good morn' as I take a break from my speaking engagements here in the Middle East. That being said, I would hope the Powers that Be did not consult Mr. Rather when producing this "2nd Watson Letter". Please pardon my humor, this second cup of turkish coffee really does enliven one's consitution.

As a review is merited...

1) A goodly member of the Mormon church enquired from the First Presidency about the location of the Hill Cumorah.

2) The First Presidency, responding on official letterhead, said through their secretary:

Dear Bishop Brooks:

I have been asked to forward to you for acknowledgment and handling the enclosed copy of a letter to President Gordon B. Hinckley from Ronnie Sparks of your ward. Brother Sparks inquired about the location of the Hill Cumorah mentioned in the Book of Mormon, where the last battle between the Nephites and Lamanites took place.

The Church has long maintained, as attested to by references in the writings of General Authorities, that the Hill Cumorah in western New York state is the same as referenced in the Book of Mormon.

The Brethren ... asked that you convey to Brother Sparks their commendation for his gospel study.

Sincerely yours, (signed) F. Michael Watson Secretary to the First Presidency

3) Apologists insist the response was the sole action and opinion by said secretary.

4) Repeated requests by skeptics to said apologists to produce a written copy of the 1993 letter where said secretary says the initial letter was his opinion and his alone, and that he was not conveying a response by the First Presidency has been met with claims the letter was lost..

5) Now a claim has been made by a poster on the Mormon Apologetics and Discussion board that the "2nd Watson Letter" has been found.

Very Respectfully,

Doctor CamNC4Me
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
_harmony
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Re: 2nd Watson Letter just found!'

Post by _harmony »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Hello Everyone,

The backpeddling by apologists on this matter would make Mr. Usain Bolt a little more than envious! Oh my! I must feel a little frisky this good morn' as I take a break from my speaking engagements here in the Middle East. That being said, I would hope the Powers that Be did not consult Mr. Rather when producing this "2nd Watson Letter". Please pardon my humor, this second cup of turkish coffee really does enliven one's consitution.

As a review is merited...

1) A goodly member of the Mormon church enquired from the First Presidency about the location of the Hill Cumorah.

2) The First Presidency, responding on official letterhead, said through their secretary:

Dear Bishop Brooks:

I have been asked to forward to you for acknowledgment and handling the enclosed copy of a letter to President Gordon B. Hinckley from Ronnie Sparks of your ward. Brother Sparks inquired about the location of the Hill Cumorah mentioned in the Book of Mormon, where the last battle between the Nephites and Lamanites took place.

The Church has long maintained, as attested to by references in the writings of General Authorities, that the Hill Cumorah in western New York state is the same as referenced in the Book of Mormon.

The Brethren ... asked that you convey to Brother Sparks their commendation for his gospel study.

Sincerely yours, (signed) F. Michael Watson Secretary to the First Presidency

3) Apologists insist the response was the sole action and opinion by said secretary.

4) Repeated requests by skeptics to said apologists to produce a written copy of the 1993 letter where said secretary says the initial letter was his opinion and his alone, and that he was not conveying a response by the First Presidency has been met with claims the letter was lost..

5) Now a claim has been made by a poster on the Mormon Apologetics and Discussion board that the "2nd Watson Letter" has been found.

Very Respectfully,

Doctor CamNC4Me


Well... that seems credible. Satisfyingly credible, in my opinion. Very credible. Almost, one might say... in-credible. Really.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
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