Ask Not What God Can Do For You But What You Can Do For God

[_The Nehor]

I weary of any fellow who thinks Dr Scratch qualifies for status.

For once we are in agreement.

If you are a local yokel in Salt Lake I will arm wrestle you for who pays at Crown Burger.

I don't like burgers much, sorry. I'm also not in Salt Lake.

Yesterday I was dealing with a fellow who was again so skillfully inciting hate that I wanted to rid myself of it and fixed my emotions to manifest no anger or resentment. Just that much determined resistance and bam! a portal to maturity opened. I did not think I was such a kid but I truly have been. 58 year old seven year old. That actually does explain a lot. How embarrassing. But I have noticed already anger is coming under subjection. Cool

Why bother? You've excused yourself in the past by saying your calling and election was made sure, why not do so again?

[_Nightlion]

How many of these people support you now? Have they joined in following you? Why are you looking for support amongst members in an apostate faith anyways?

Those were bygone days. I had no notion of leading anybody anywhere. The Church left me standing. I have only sought to hold up the standard of Zion. No compromise. Until we get a few folks worthy of Zion there will be no church, no kingdom, no Zion. We shall see what the Lord will make of it when this occurs.

If someone tried to follow me I would tell them to go their way and repent. If they insisted I baptize them I would need to see fruit meet for the kingdom of God first. Then they would have to demonstrate that they were truly visited of God and wrought upon and cleansed by the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost for me to remember them. I have no interest in competing with the LDS abomination.

[_Nightlion]

Why bother? You've excused yourself in the past by saying your calling and election was made sure, why not do so again?

Not that you could possibly have a clue about it but having one's calling and election made sure does nothing for filling in the missing pieces that the lack of parental nurture left off. Neither does the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. Neither does the second comforter. God will allow you your weakness to work altogether for his name glory as long as it seems good to him. I admit that I fell from perfect charity after I was born again. It took about four years and being betrayed by all things LDS in my life before I stumbled at what I know see as a lack of maturity. It was not there when I needed it. Been a tough lot mine. And I don't want you mocking me about it. Please.

It is time I come off fully responsible today. I think it saved me much anger and frustration in the past not being responsible until the Church had fully rotted through their connection to the vine that is Jesus Christ. I am really kind of excited to see what I can do..................;)

[_truth dancer]

Hi NL,

I think many of us here group all the self proclaimed prophets into one category.

~td~

I did not originate as a self proclaimed prophet. Two Elders who witnessed the event and results of my having been wrought upon by the power of the Holy Ghost to preach a parable to help convert a couple declared in testimony meeting later that I would be an apostle.

Two more returned missionaries in Valley View Singles Ward on Evergreen Avenue in East Millcreek, Utah witnessed to me that they knew my prophecy in fast and testimony meeting was true and of God and that I was truly wrought upon by the power of the Holy Ghost to speak while testifying in the name of Jesus Christ.

Beside my weekly uncanny (their words not mine, they did not fail to notice) unfolding of LDS scripture, the LDS Church had to overt witnesses that they could have picked up and an honored me with some degree of respect for the gift and power that was manifested by me. They might have kept themselves a valid church. Oh, well. Shucks. The day of the Gentile is over.

See, here is the problem. The world over, there are men (a few women) who claim to be the recipient of God's word, or a prophet, or some sort of special and chosen vessel for the one and only divine truth. Have you ever been to India or the Middle East? Do you ever spend time with members of other fundamental religions or cults?

These leaders have followers and devotees who will testify that they "know" their chosen leader is the one. Just take a look at the devotees of a particular Swami or Guru or Imam, not to mention various Christian groups or the FLDS?

Thinking one is in communion with God or having others "testify" that someone is a chosen instrument of God is meaningless. It is actually rather common place when you think about it.

It just seems to me that if there is a God who cares about humans, and had some important message essential to eternal life, that this message would be a bit more clear, and not reserved for a handful of folk who happen to know a particular man.

~td~

[_Nightlion]

Hi NL,

Thinking one is in communion with God or having others "testify" that someone is a chosen instrument of God is meaningless. It is actually rather common place when you think about it.

It just seems to me that if there is a God who cares about humans, and had some important message essential to eternal life, that this message would be a bit more clear, and not reserved for a handful of folk who happen to know a particular man.

~td~

Setting aside your BIG IF for a second I agree that "thinking" or people "testifying" that somebody is a chosen instrument is meaningless if thinking and just saying so is all there is to it.

Nobody has witnessed the power of the Holy Ghost fall upon Thomas S. Monson and heard the word of God spoken during such an event. Still most LDS will testify that he is God's chosen instrument. Those who enjoy the inner circle and uphold the credibility of these sorts of things partake of rewards that tend to perpetuate the mystique. I have always laughed to see some of the lesser efforts fail and fall apart.

There is a living and true God. He placed man upon this earth and walked and talked with them in the cool of the day. That would cover your demand of God being clear and direct and to the point; if I may add to your words.

Adam and Eve did not enjoy great success after the fall in persuading their children to believe their witness. I suppose then that you would insist God must come down and walk and talk with everyone just to be fair. The important thing that escapes your experience is that the gift and power of the Holy Ghost is greater than walking and talking with God, in the cool of the day. People walked and talked with Jesus and then sought to kill him.

Of course lots of guys have pretended to this power. Of course their pretense is meaningless and it deceives people and evil abounds. But the people who sought to make war upon the Zion of Enoch had a clear and present witness of the power of God. The people who disembarked Noah's ark had a clear and present witness of God. The people who were driven forth from the Tower of Babel and had their language confused had a clear and present witness of God. The people of Egypt at the time of Moses had a clear and present witness of God. The Hebrew priests of Baal had a clear and present witness of God when Elijah called down fire from heaven upon them.

The people of Jared had a clear and present witness of God when Mahonri Moriancumur removed the mountain Zerin. The people who lived with Jesus Christ for thirty three years had a clear and present witness of God. The Nephites who experienced the great destruction of their nation had a clear witness of God when Christ appeared to them.

What also escapes you is that this life is a proving ground. It is here where God determines and intimately assists those whose hearts are set upon finding him in truth. All the overt witnesses help establish a resource that those seeking God can utilize. It becomes clear and unmistakable when you are drawn to come unto Christ.

To help you clear the field of all the multitudes of gods and ways and means to those gods invented in the minds of men and devils, only the one true God actually responds when someone seeks him aright. For no man can come unto Christ except the Father draws him. Of this I am a living witness.

Lots of folks pretend to come unto Christ and make a fine life for themselves helping other pretend. You can detect that the pretense is all there is to it. The pretense is perpetuated. This is all the more true with the LDS. All this deceit actually refuses to know God. What a clear irony.

The intimate involvement of God in drawing a soul unto salvation does not happen to most people. God has billions of other worlds and he is using that entirety to make up his jewels. An entire world often will test and prove only one at a time. That is profitable. That might not sit very well with people who "think" they are the entitled center of the universe.

All this reasoning is of course meaningless to anyone who doubts the existence of God. It was clearly demonstrated to Laman and Lemuel many times and still they refused to accept it. IF a mountain should be removed in your lifetime, and you see it over and over again on CNN, will you believe? And what you will believe will be what ever occurs to YOU anyways, like what? suddenly your interpretation makes you the chosen instrument? RIGHT!

There is a right science to prove true religion. The gift and power of the Holy Ghost is that proof. This results can be duplicated by those who work the proper sequence. Everyone can work the right way of the Lord and get the same results. It was true with Adam and all the righteous fathers on down to me.

The world is filled with meaninglessness. None less meaningful than doubting that there is a God.