Shaken Faith Syndrome

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Mike,

May I ask about how you feel about these same feelings that non Mormons have about their religion?

For every Mormon who has a burning bosom about LDS, there are probably 1,000 non Mormons with the same feelings about their non Mormon beliefs.

Is satan that good? 1,000 times more influential than Joe, God, or Jesus??

Or do you accept that God did make these non Mormons feel right about their non Mormon beliefs?

What about the billion Muslims and hundreds of millions of Buddhists? Boy that Satan has the corner on the market of deception doesn't he?

[_Themis]

Mike,

May I ask about how you feel about these same feelings that non Mormons have about their religion?

For every Mormon who has a burning bosom about LDS, there are probably 1,000 non Mormons with the same feelings about their non Mormon beliefs.

That's the problem I see. There are probably many people outside the church who also have unexplainable experiences and use them as evidence for their supernatural beliefs and truth claims even though they conflict with LDS claims.

[_Redefined]

So how is “shaken-faith syndrome” qualified? Is it if somebody starts to believe the “new information” from the “anti-mormon” sources, because those that believe the “new information” from the apologetic sources are able to retain their faith, thus don’t exhibit this “shaken-faith syndrome”? Or is “shaken-faith syndrome” meant to encompass both situations? So in other words, is Mr. Ash just making a general observation about how all Mormons function psychologically with “new information”, and he calls this function “shaken-faith syndrome”? And the options given of the reactions to this new information aren’t suggestions, just observations of what people do?

So for instance,
A)Some people reject the information as false.
B)Some people reject the information as irrelevant.
C)Some people accept the new information and are able to reconcile it to their current beliefs.
D)Some people accept the new information, thus they cannot reconcile with their current beliefs.

So then, what is considered to be “struggling”? Should family members buy this book and give it to all their Mormon family members and friends who fall under categories A, B and C? And then, wouldn’t every Mormon have to have one? (Except, of course, “Chapel Mormons”, who aren’t even aware of this “new information” of which we speak, therefore immune to “shaken-faith syndrome”.)

[_MAsh]

Mike,

May I ask about how you feel about these same feelings that non Mormons have about their religion?

I think that all righteous people can receive inspiration.

For every Mormon who has a burning bosom about LDS, there are probably 1,000 non Mormons with the same feelings about their non Mormon beliefs.

Are you sure? CFR. I don't doubt for one minute that millions of non-Mormons receive spiritual guidance, inspiration, and revelatory confirmation on issues of eternal importance but are you sure that most non-Mormons seek, through personal revelation, a witness regarding the same things for which Mormons seek spiritual confirmation?

Is satan that good? 1,000 times more influential than Joe, God, or Jesus??

And the snark meter pops swings wildly on the scale. Why would I think that "Satan" is the source for non-LDS revelation?

Or do you accept that God did make these non Mormons feel right about their non Mormon beliefs?

Yes. Because typically, I think they are also Mormon beliefs.

What about the billion Muslims and hundreds of millions of Buddhists?

CFR. Please show me an example of a Muslim who's claimed to have a testimony by way of personal revelation.

Boy that Satan has the corner on the market of deception doesn't he?

Snarky and not useful to the discussion.

Mike Ash

[_Gadianton Plumber]

Mike, this is not MAD. CFRs are not honored, don't use them. Instead, politely ask for references. We don't use them to bully people like over yonder.

[_MAsh]

So how is “shaken-faith syndrome” qualified?

First it's a catchy title (IMHO).

Is it if somebody starts to believe the “new information” from the “anti-mormon” sources, because those that believe the “new information” from the apologetic sources are able to retain their faith, thus don’t exhibit this “shaken-faith syndrome”? Or is “shaken-faith syndrome” meant to encompass both situations? So in other words, is Mr. Ash just making a general observation about how all Mormons function psychologically with “new information”, and he calls this function “shaken-faith syndrome”? And the options given of the reactions to this new information aren’t suggestions, just observations of what people do?...

When an LDS gets psychological heartburn over information that challenges their prior religious convicitions and paradigms, I think it can be said they've got "Shaken Faith Syndrome."

So then, what is considered to be “struggling”?

When someone struggles with their religious convictions.

Should family members buy this book and give it to all their Mormon family members and friends who fall under categories A, B and C?

Yes.

And then, wouldn’t every Mormon have to have one?

Yes.

(Except, of course, “Chapel Mormons”, who aren’t even aware of this “new information” of which we speak, therefore immune to “shaken-faith syndrome”.)

Which offers a great example of the uselessness of this false dichotomny. I was aware of all of the primary anti-LDS arguments back in the early 80s.


Mike Ash

[_zeezrom]

I think that all righteous people can receive inspiration.

Mike, I have two of your books. This one and the other is something about 101 reasons Joseph is a Prophet or something. I have not read that one yet but the cover design is fabulous.

Regarding the statement that all righteous people can receive inspiration.

Since it is hard for us simple-minded humans to know who is righteous and who is not, maybe we could just say, "people can receive inspiration."

That way, you don't muddy the water trying to figure out what righteous means and who it would apply to.

[_MAsh]

Mike, this is not MAD. CFRs are not honored, don't use them. Instead, politely ask for references. We don't use them to bully people like over yonder.

So if I say PSYR (please supply your references) that's ok but CFR (call for references) is not allowed. Okay..... It wasn't a bully tactic. A claim was made and I'd appreciate seeing support for the claim.

Mike Ash

[_MAsh]

Since it is hard for us simple-minded humans to know who is righteous and who is not, maybe we could just say, "people can receive inspiration."

That way, you don't muddy the water trying to figure out what righteous means and who it would apply to.

Good point, especially since none of us are really "righteous"-- we all fall short. My point was meant to convey my belief that God will speak to us when we sincerely seek His will and when we are moving "with the grain" rather than "against the grain" according to our understanding of God's will. While I can't rule out that the obviously wicked are unable to hear God's word, I do believe that if we are attempting to align ourselves with God that we are in a better position to be receptive to his word.

Mike Ash

[_Gadianton Plumber]

Mike, this is not MAD. CFRs are not honored, don't use them. Instead, politely ask for references. We don't use them to bully people like over yonder.

So if I say PSYR (please supply your references) that's ok but CFR (call for references) is not allowed. Okay..... It wasn't a bully tactic. A claim was made and I'd appreciate seeing support for the claim.

Mike Ash

Try talking to him like he is person. I know it's hard with PP, but give it a shot. Who goes around shouting letters at people?