MAD Posters Affirm Church's Paranoia & Lack of Transparency

[_ttribe]

I found out about Joseph Smith's polygamy before my mission. I picked up a copy of Brodie's No Man Knows My History off the shelf at the BYU bookstore and read through her list of Joseph's wives in the back of the book. I was surprised, but after thinking about Brigham's polygamy, I decided that I shouldn't be that surprised. I learned about polyandry while I was on my mission. We were listening to the Dramatized Church History tapes, and they dramatize the incident where Joseph asks for Heber C. Kimball's wife Vilate. Needless to say, Vilate sounded really annoyed. My daughter learned about Joseph's polygamy by reading Volume 6 of "The Work and the Glory."

I don't recall ever hearing the argument that Joseph married only old women so that he could care for them.

WW

I knew about the Vilate incident from my reading of History of the Church. I didn't know about Zina, et al. though.

[_JohnStuartMill]

Exactly what JohnStuartMill said. This is because that is what I was taught and I was only 19 when I went on my mission. I was told to focus on reading the scriptures before my mission so how would I know about the other wives...

Look, there are aspects of the Joseph Smith's practice of polygamy which I didn't discover until later either - polyandry, for example - so I can be somewhat sympathetic. However, as to the actual practice of polygamy, in general, by Joseph Smith there should be no question that he had other WIVES if you read D&C 132 prior to your mission. I'm not sure what your point is about serving when you were 19 - most of use started serving at that age. Frankly, I can't remember a time when I didn't know that Joseph Smith had been a polygamist. I always find this fascinating when I hear this. I'm curious, I'm confident you knew that BY and John Taylor had more than one wife; were you as disturbed by their marriages as you were with the discovery that Joseph Smith had other marriages besides his first?

I have to also admit that I am consistently surprised about this "missionaries only read the scriptures" thing. I read the 7 volume set of History of the Church (B.H. Roberts) while I was on my mission. There's a fair amount of these historical "problems" at least alluded to in those books.

I have definitely had Church leaders dissuade me from reading material that wasn't "faith-promoting," even if it was official Church material. And with the way the subject of Joseph's polygamy is broached is treated in mainstream official Church venues, I think it's more than a little unfair to suggest that the ignorance of the younger members is somehow their fault.

[_ttribe]

I have definitely had Church leaders dissuade me from reading material that wasn't "faith-promoting," even if it was official Church material.

I've witnessed such a phenomenon as well; it bothers me to no end.

And with the way the subject of Joseph's polygamy is broached is treated in mainstream official Church venues, I think it's more than a little unfair to suggest that the ignorance of the younger members is somehow their fault.

I wasn't suggesting such a thing. I was exploring the issue.

[_Black Moclips]

I posted this once on MAD and didn't get very many comments. I think this would be an amazing webpage, even more powerful than "Mormon Scholars Testify":


"New Converts Who Googled Joseph Smith and Followed the First Twenty Links and Still Got Baptized Testify"

[_ttribe]

I posted this once on MAD and didn't get very many comments. I think this would be an amazing webpage, even more powerful than "Mormon Scholars Testify":


"New Converts Who Googled Joseph Smith and Followed the First Twenty Links and Still Got Baptized Testify"

Okay so, despite the apparent cynicism, that was worth a chuckle.

[_Rambo]

I have definitely had Church leaders dissuade me from reading material that wasn't "faith-promoting," even if it was official Church material.

I've witnessed such a phenomenon as well; it bothers me to no end.

And with the way the subject of Joseph's polygamy is broached is treated in mainstream official Church venues, I think it's more than a little unfair to suggest that the ignorance of the younger members is somehow their fault.

I wasn't suggesting such a thing. I was exploring the issue.

I know most missionaries are 19 when they go out my point was that I was still very young. I was in high school until I was 18 then college for a year. There was not much time to study church history plus as JohnStuartMill said leaders dissuade me from reading material that wasn't "faith-promoting," even if it was official Church material. I will admit I really didn't focus on church things to much when I was younger. I did what was asked of me. I did know BY was polygamist however; the way it was explained was all buttered up!

[_Nimrod]

I posted this once on MAD and didn't get very many comments. I think this would be an amazing webpage, even more powerful than "Mormon Scholars Testify":


"New Converts Who Googled Joseph Smith and Followed the First Twenty Links and Still Got Baptized Testify"

Yeah, and to help Professor Dan with that project, the COB has a list of all 3 such converts.

[_ttribe]

I know most missionaries are 19 when they go out my point was that I was still very young. I was in high school until I was 18 then college for a year.

Same.

There was not much time to study church history plus as JohnStuartMill said leaders dissuade me from reading material that wasn't "faith-promoting," even if it was official Church material. I will admit I really didn't focus on church things to much when I was younger. I did what was asked of me. I did know BY was polygamist however; the way it was explained was all buttered up!

Then, it seems, some of your leaders may have done you a disservice, in my opinion.

[_Analytics]

Look, there are aspects of the Joseph Smith's practice of polygamy which I didn't discover until later either - polyandry, for example - so I can be somewhat sympathetic. However, as to the actual practice of polygamy, in general, by Joseph Smith there should be no question that he had other WIVES if you read D&C 132 prior to your mission. I'm not sure what your point is about serving when you were 19 - most of use started serving at that age. Frankly, I can't remember a time when I didn't know that Joseph Smith had been a polygamist. I always find this fascinating when I hear this. I'm curious, I'm confident you knew that BY and John Taylor had more than one wife; were you as disturbed by their marriages as you were with the discovery that Joseph Smith had other marriages besides his first?

Because Brigham Young and John Taylor had some integrity about how they went about it, which allows the church to be more open about the truth of the matter. For example, they didn't publically deny that they had more than one wife. They weren't violating the laws of the church (at least after 1852 they weren't).

Of course I know from Section 132 that Joseph Smith had received a revelation about polygamy. But it wasn’t clear if he actually obeyed it. The only story about him involving polygamy entailed him proposing to another man’s wife and then saying, “just kidding, I was testing your faith.”

It isn't merely "some aspects" of it which are disturbing. It is the historical context. For example, I was utterly unaware that the Doctrine and Covenants at the time categorically denying allegations about polygamy. I’d heard that William Law et. al. had told really awful lies about Joseph Smith in the Nauvoo Expositor, but I had no clue that the really nasty “lie” that got everybody so upset was essentially, “Joseph Smith is lying to you about polygamy. Despite what he says, he really does secretly practice polygamy in flagrant violation of the law’s of the Church as published in the scriptures.”

The whole truth of the matter reflect very poorly on the integrity of Joseph Smith and the Church. While you were undoubtedly aware that Joseph Smith received and to some extent obeyed an alleged revelation on the matter, you certainly couldn’t have understood the full context of what really happened without turning to a source such as Fawn Brodie.

[_solomarineris]

Man this is really bumming me out. Shouldn't the church have answers for our questions? Why do they leave the job to people who don't have any real responsibility for what they say? When I joined the church I thought it was a place where God was giving me the answers. Now I see it is just like any other church. What is a prophet good for if he doesn't offer real information and answer your questions?

When did u join the Church?