MAD Pundits Book of Abraham Thread

[_Dwight Frye]

For those of you interested in Book of Abraham debates, there's an interesting thread that's just starting up in the Pundits section over at yonder MADhouse. All your favorites are in it: Brent Metcalfe, Mortal Man, Chris Smith, Kerry Shirts, Brian Hauglid, and, why, even William Schryver has come out of retirement to chime in. Should be intriguing, so keep watching:

Egyptological Connections to Joseph Smith's explanation of Book of Abraham facsimile No. 1, figure 9 - the Crocodile as "Idolatrous god of Pharaoh"







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[_Paul Osborne]

Kerry Shirts doesn't know when to give up. Can you imagine the argument that would ensue if he were to discuss the figures drawn in Facsimile No. 3 with the original Egyptian artist that drew them? I can see it right now. Kerry Shirts would proceed to tell the artist what he had really meant to draw and what the figures in his artwork really represented. The artist would stand there with his jaw open while Shirts delivers his silly Niblic message.

Shirts constantly glorifies the name of his favorite person, Hugh Nibley. I think Nibley was slime.

Paul O

[_Paul Osborne]

I'm really a boy dressed up a like a girl. I revealed that to Hugh Nibley when he tried to tickle me.

[_Trevor]

I fail to see how it is encouraging to LDS people that, given the many ways the Book of Abraham does not look ancient, or does not appear to be what it claims to be, Joseph Smith may have intuited a couple of things pretty well. I guess if one sets the bar sufficiently low, it is difficult to be disappointed.

[_Trevor]

Take this for example. Kerry says the following:

Every now and then, we see or hear a critic of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints say that Joseph Smith got nothing right in his explanations for the facsimiles in the Book of Abraham. They do not realize that the explanations of Joseph Smith are not translations, literally rendered, but explain what the function of the figures are for. He described what the story is with the various figures. True he did not translate the crocodile in Facsimile #1 as “Sobek,” but does that mean he was wrong to identify it as “The idolatrous god of Pharaoh?”

"Every now and then, we see a critic...": So what? Doesn't his statement suggest the construction of a strawman on the part of these critics, and perhaps even his choice to attack a flimsy criticism?

"They do not realize...": This is followed by Kerry's definition of what the facsimile explanations represent. I suppose if one redefines the problem, it is easy to arrive at a favorable conclusion.

[_Paul Osborne]

I’m insulted by the President and founder of the Mormon church for declaring to the world that I am merely a slave. The Mormon prophet has blasphemed against Egypt’s pantheon and he is worthy of death. I am Anubis, a god of Egypt. The Mormons commit blaspheme against Egypt!

[_Paul Osborne]

Every now and then, we see or hear a critic of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints say that Joseph Smith got nothing right in his explanations for the facsimiles in the Book of Abraham.

Jesus Christ, superstar! Kerry can't even spell the name of the church correctly. He is so far out in left field. Oh God, the devils laugh and the angels shake their heads.

Next up, Kerry will be telling you what Joseph Smith really meant. But we all know that Joseph only really cared about what ass he could grab next. Joseph would have said anything to get a handful of ass.

Paul O

[_Paul Osborne]

They do not realize that the explanations of Joseph Smith are not translations, literally rendered, but explain what the function of the figures are for. He described what the story is with the various figures. True he did not translate the crocodile in Facsimile #1 as “Sobek,” but does that mean he was wrong to identify it as “The idolatrous god of Pharaoh?”

This of course is from the mouth of Kerry Shirts, not Joseph Smith who always stood behind his literal translations. Joseph used to boast of knowing all kinds of languages. Read his teachings and see for yourself! His motive was to impress the women and keep the men in check.

Joseph Smith couldn't have ever gotten the name “Sobek” simply because his revelations were manmade. He simply saw a crocodile. Interestingly, he reserved his literal name translations for “Shulem”. That’s right Kerry, the name, Shulem. That was a literal translation and Joseph Smith stood by it. You, of course, won’t stand by it because you don’t believe your prophet.

When we look at what the Egyptologists and ancient Egyptians taught about Sobek, we are in for a real surprise. It just so happens that Sobek literally is “the idolatrous god of Pharaoh!” Lets consider the Egyptian evidence.

There is no surprise here, Kerry. A mentally retarded oaf could've just easilly reasoned that the crocodile was an Egyptian god. Everyone who knows anything about Egypt knows they worship all kinds of beings including beasts. It wasn’t hard at all for Joseph to slip that easy answer into his explanation.

Paul O

[_Trevor]

A mentally retarded oaf could've just easilly reasoned that the crocodile was an Egyptian god. Everyone who knows anything about Egypt knows they worship all kinds of beings including beasts. It wasn’t hard at all for Joseph to slip that easy answer into his explanation.

Yeah, the idea that the crocodile represents a god is not very impressive as a "hit." That the Egyptians worshiped theriomorphic gods can easily be discovered from numerous non-Egyptian sources.

[_Paul Osborne]

Yeah, the idea that the crocodile represents a god is not very impressive as a "hit." That the Egyptians worshiped theriomorphic gods can easily be discovered from numerous non-Egyptian sources.

Indeed, and Joseph was a thief by taking things out of Josephus and sticking them into his Book of Abraham. He was crafty.

Paul O