Lying Spirit or Answer from Satan?

[_scripturesearcher]

This is something that has puzzled me for a while.

I visited with some LDS missionaries and they left me with a small booklet called "The Restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ".
On page 15 of this booklet it says this:
You can know that what the missionaries have taught is true if you read and pray about the Book of Mormon:
"If ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
"And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." Moroni 10:4-5

So then, later I was looking up those verses in the Book of Mormon, only to find it saying something different:
Moroni 10: 4-5
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

What bothers me about this is that they are saying opposite things.
Meaning, that if a person prays to ask if these things are not true and they have a "feeling" does that make it true?
Or if a person prays to ask if these things are true and they have a "feeling" does that make it true?

How would a person know if the "feeling" they get would be telling them it is true or false?

[_Jersey Girl]

This is something that has puzzled me for a while.

I visited with some LDS missionaries and they left me with a small booklet called "The Restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ".
On page 15 of this booklet it says this:
You can know that what the missionaries have taught is true if you read and pray about the Book of Mormon:
"If ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
"And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." Moroni 10:4-5

So then, later I was looking up those verses in the Book of Mormon, only to find it saying something different:
Moroni 10: 4-5
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

What bothers me about this is that they are saying opposite things.
Meaning, that if a person prays to ask if these things are not true and they have a "feeling" does that make it true?
Or if a person prays to ask if these things are true and they have a "feeling" does that make it true?

How would a person know if the "feeling" they get would be telling them it is true or false?

scripturesearcher,

I've replied to you on another thread and am going to reply on this one as well. You're barking up the wrong tree here. Your example above is a poorly chosen one. It doesn't say something different. There is a partial quote from Moroni that clearly lists the verse, one of which is verse 5.

It would not be unlike using 1 Corinthians 13 and quoting "And the greatest of these is love".

How do YOU know that the answers you receive in prayer are true or false?

All I'm trying to point out to you, scripturesearcher, is that your own comments are challenge worthy as well.

If I can do it, you can bet that LDS are going to do it as well.

Try answering my question...

How do YOU know that the answers you receive in prayer are true or false?

[_Some Schmo]

I thought this was hilarious:

April 1, 2009 — TOPEKA, KANSAS, APRIL 1 – Speakers here at the Faith-Based Development Conference have demonstrated a software development methodology based on the concept that if you believe the code will work properly, it will work properly.

“All you have to do is believe, and we do this all the time,” said Ebenezer Scroom, CEO of Faith-Based Software Development Inc. (FBSDI), which sponsored the conference. “We turn the car key and believe that our engine will start… and it does. We push bread down into the toaster and believe that toast will pop out… and it does. We write thousand of lines of C# or Java, click the ‘Build’ button and believe the application will execute correctly the first time. In his heart of hearts, every developer believes this! The good news is that if you follow the principles of Faith-Based Development, your app will work the first time.”

Scroom cited anecdotal studies that demonstrate the power of Faith-Based Development to cut costs, shorten development cycles, improve software quality, and so on. “These results have been validated by industry analysts,” he said, “who were duly impressed when we hired them to author white papers and conduct webinars for FBSDI.”

There are four pillars of Faith-Based Development, explained Scroom, all of which can be easily implemented by tools sold by FBSDI. A project begins with Faith-Based Modeling, where architects use UML to document what Scroom calls “Faith Cases.”

Next, Faith-Based Coding relies on plug-in modules for Visual Studio Team System and Eclipse. “If you have faith that your syntax is right, then it’s going to be right,” he said.

The third phase is Faith-Based Testing. “This is perhaps the easiest part to learn.” Scroom said. “Developers are used to firing up their automated test suites, closing their eyes and praying. What we now know is that it’s the quality of the prayer, not the comprehensiveness of the test harness, that really matters.”

Finally, he said, it’s time for FBSDI’s Faith-Based Build and Deployment Services to bring together the final assemblies and push them out to the data center in one irrevocable operation.

“If you believe the software will be perfect the first time, there’s no reason to implement a phased rollout,” Scroom said. “If you have faith, you will succeed. If not… have I mentioned our professional services division?”

Notice how the biggest selling point here is that faith/prayer is a shortcut? Doesn't that tell you something?

One would think that if faith and prayer were real, this dev company would be wildly successful, the biggest in the world. The question is, if you had business-critical software needs, would you hire them?

Why is it that when it comes to mundane things, like buying software, we want empirical proof that it works, or we won't shell out any cash. But when it comes to determining how we're going to live our whole lives, or make bold assertions about the nature of the universe, proof is unnecessary?

I just don't understand the religious mind... at least, not from supposed adults.

[_scripturesearcher]

scripturesearcher,

I've replied to you on another thread and am going to reply on this one as well. You're barking up the wrong tree here. Your example above is a poorly chosen one. It doesn't say something different. There is a partial quote from Moroni that clearly lists the verse, one of which is verse 5.

I did see your reply on the other thread and will respond there when I get the time to do so.
I understand that it was a partial quote. That was not the issue or question.
I think this issue here is that I did not ask my question very clearly.
Let me try asking again in a different way.

The missionaries and their materials are asking people to pray based on those verses and they are asking to pray to know if it is true. They said that I would have a "burning in the bussom" and would know the truth.

The verse itself (at least the way I read it) is asking to pray in the name of Christ if these things are NOT true. Then it goes on to say that you will know the truth by the power of the Holy Ghost.

My question is:
If you are relying on the "burning of the bussom" for the answer, then doesn't it matter if you are asking if it is true, or if it is NOT true?

All I'm trying to point out to you, scripturesearcher, is that your own comments are challenge worthy as well.

Agree, never said they were not.

Try answering my question...
How do YOU know that the answers you receive in prayer are true or false?

Not sure how to answer that one, because I don't pray for true of false answers.
I don't believe that the challenge issued by Mormons is biblical to pray to know if something is true and to get the answer by a feeling.

I believe that those feelings could be provided by someone other than God.

1 John 4:1 - "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

I believe that there are also evil spirits that will not always seem evil or false.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 - "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness ..."

I also believe that you can't rely on a feeling from you heart either.

Jeremiah 17:9 - "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

[_just me]

Thanks for all the replies. There are some angles I had not really heard of before.

Basically, it is reasonable in the minds of some to blame the operator if they turn the key and the car doesn't start.

This thread really helped me see just how ingenious the Book of Mormon is. It not only addresses all reasonable opposition, it includes its very own out clause for not delivering what it promises!

Genius!