1) Why do you think that Joseph Smith's concept of the characteristics of God changed?
Revelation.
2) Probably more interesting to me, why do you think the LDS Church would lead people to think Joseph Smith's concept right from the beginning is what the LDS Church teaches now?
Oversimplification and not knowing what the trinity doctrine is. I think it's certainly possible Joseph Smith got this information up front with the FV. But it seems unlikely.
Last edited by Guest on Thu May 20, 2010 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
The FAIR item you posted wants to argue that apparently Joseph Smith did not really know much about whether God has a body as well as other uniquely LDS ideas about the Godhead. But many official LDS sources show that the Church teaches Joseph Smith knew God had a body and that Jesus and the Father were separate after the first vision.
But no references are given for the latter. The request was for references and I gave one.
President Hinckley said it. He is quoted in seminary manuals and then the further point is made that the FV shows us God has a body. Yet FAIR argues that this knowledge likely came later. So do you. You and FAIR conflict with LDS official doctrine on this.
That is correct. Doesn't change what is and is not doctrine though.
And why do you? Because early LDS scripture does not teach that God has a body and is certainly not clear that God and Jesus are separate.
No. A reference was called for and one was given. The actual doctrine itself does not contain a direct supporting reference.
Your dance around this is quite funny.
I think it only appears that way because the criticism is convoluted and makes assumptions that don't exist.
1) Why do you think that Joseph Smith's concept of the characteristics of God changed?
2) Probably more interesting to me, why do you think LDS Inc would lead people to think Joseph Smith's concept right from the beginning is what LDS Inc teaches now?
1: I think Joseph Smith started off with good intents as part of the restorationist movement. Early Mormonism was really quite like Protestant Christianity with some twists. I do not think Mormonism was totally Classical Theology from the start. But it was still fairly similar to standard trinity theology. It was not clear at all from the start that God had a body or that he was not a spirit. Did early Mormonism teach a separate Godhead? I would say sort of quasi but it is not clear at least till maybe starting in 1835. So what change? Not sure. Maybe he believed it. Maybe he speculated it. Maybe he wanted to keep things interesting so he looked for innovations.
2: Because if he was more traditional and innovated as he went forward then it causes major problems for his first vision claims.
You were thrashed. Pres Hinckley's comments were in a General Conference. He was quoted in a seminary manual, published by the Church. He said that he knew God had a body when he walked out of the grove.
You are FAIR are disputing the Prophet and in danger of apostasy.
And you have been thrashed here. But keep up your dance.
Joseph Antley wrote:Most lay Christians, in my experience, aren't "true" Trinitarians. Many fall somewhere in the middle, but most haven't even given the idea extensive consideration.
I agree.
Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei
(I lost access to my Milesius account, so I had to retrieve this one from the mothballs.)