Darth J wrote:I do however strongly object to the tyrannic and unscriptural insolence of anything that calls itself a Church and makes teetotalism a condition of membership. -C.S. Lewis[/color]
Where do you find these things?!
The GA's quote from this guy all the time. Why have I not heard this quote from them, I wonder...
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)
Darth J wrote:I do however strongly object to the tyrannic and unscriptural insolence of anything that calls itself a Church and makes teetotalism a condition of membership. -C.S. Lewis[/color]
Where do you find these things?!
The GA's quote from this guy all the time. Why have I not heard this quote from them, I wonder...
Darth J wrote:I do however strongly object to the tyrannic and unscriptural insolence of anything that calls itself a Church and makes teetotalism a condition of membership. -C.S. Lewis[/color]
Where do you find these things?!
The GA's quote from this guy all the time. Why have I not heard this quote from them, I wonder...
Similar to how the Church has co-opted the Boy Scouts of America, Mormons have also decided that C.S. Lewis was really talking about Mormonism and/or would have been sympathetic to Mormonism---which he very much was not. Take a look around Deseret Book, or peruse some General Conference talks, and you will find that Mormons tend to think of C.S. Lewis the way 12 year-old girls think of the Jonas Brothers.
Darth J wrote: I have always in my books been concerned simply to put forward "mere" Christianity, and am no guide on these (most regrettable) "interdenominational" questions. I do however strongly object to the tyrannic and unscriptural insolence of anything that calls itself a Church and makes teetotalism a condition of membership. -C.S. Lewis
Yes, there are issues where we disagree with Lewis. In fact, there are issues where we disagree with Bruce R. McConkie--as he himself later did.
Back on topic: does anyone have any comments about the quotes Nehor provided, or are we just trying to dismiss everything Lewis wrote because Mormons disagree with some of them?
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Darth J wrote:Similar to how the Church has co-opted the Boy Scouts of America, Mormons have also decided that C.S. Lewis was really talking about Mormonism and/or would have been sympathetic to Mormonism---which he very much was not. Take a look around Deseret Book, or peruse some General Conference talks, and you will find that Mormons tend to think of C.S. Lewis the way 12 year-old girls think of the Jonas Brothers.
In other words, we shouldn't use Lewis even when we agree with him because he wouldn't like it?
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
asbestosman wrote:Yes, there are issues where we disagree with Lewis. In fact, there are issues where we disagree with Bruce R. McConkie--as he himself later did.
Back on topic: does anyone have any comments about the quotes Nehor provided, or are we just trying to dismiss everything Lewis wrote because Mormons disagree with some of them?
Since C.S. Lewis emphasized that he was not a theologian, and proved it by writing hack stories about talking lions and correspondence between devils, I think you first need to establish some reason why anyone should give a crap what C.S. Lewis said about anything.
In other words, Narnia is to Middle Earth what Branson, Missouri is to Las Vegas.
I mean, I know Neal A. Maxwell was obsessed with C.S. Lewis, and TBM's consider Maxwell to have been an intellectual, but there are also 12 year-old girls who consider the Jonas Brothers to be bona fide musicians.
Darth J wrote:Similar to how the Church has co-opted the Boy Scouts of America, Mormons have also decided that C.S. Lewis was really talking about Mormonism and/or would have been sympathetic to Mormonism---which he very much was not. Take a look around Deseret Book, or peruse some General Conference talks, and you will find that Mormons tend to think of C.S. Lewis the way 12 year-old girls think of the Jonas Brothers.
In other words, we shouldn't use Lewis even when we agree with him because he wouldn't like it?
Let me be more precise:
1. Who gives a crap what C.S. Lewis thinks?
2. Mormons co-opting C.S. Lewis' apologetics for a type of Christianity that is not similar to the folk magic/Freemasonry/gnosticism casserole that is Mormonism is kind of intellectually dishonest.
2. Mormons co-opting C.S. Lewis' apologetics for a type of Christianity that is not similar to the folk magic/Freemasonry/gnosticism casserole that is Mormonism is kind of intellectually dishonest.
Nailed it.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
The Nehor wrote:"All right, Christianity will do you good—a great deal more good than you ever wanted or expected. And the first bit of good it will do you is to hammer into your head (you won’t enjoy that!) the fact that what you have hitherto called “good”—all that about “leading a decent life” and “being kind”—isn’t quite the magnificent and all-important affair you supposed. It will teach you that in fact you can’t be “good” (not for twenty-four hours) on your own moral efforts. And then it will teach you that even if you were, you still wouldn’t have achieved the purpose for which you were created. Mere morality is not the end of life. You were made for something quite different from that. J. S. Mill and Confucius (Socrates was much nearer the reality) simply didn’t know what life is about. The people who keep on asking if they can’t lead a decent life without Christ, don’t know what life is about; if they did they would know that “a decent life” is mere machinery compared with the thing we men are really made for. Morality is indispensable: but the Divine Life, which gives itself to us and which calls us to be gods, intends for us something in which morality will be swallowed up. We are to be re-made. All the rabbit in us is to disappear—the worried, conscientious, ethical rabbit as well as the cowardly and sensual rabbit. We shall bleed and squeal as the handfuls of fur come out; and then, surprisingly, we shall find underneath it all a thing we have never yet imagined: a real Man, an ageless god, a son of God, strong, radiant, wise, beautiful, and drenched in joy."
"“When that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” 2 The idea of reaching “a good life” without Christ is based on a double error. Firstly, we cannot do it; and secondly, in setting up “a good life” as our final goal, we have missed the very point of our existence. Morality is a mountain which we cannot climb by our own efforts; and if we could we should only perish in the ice and unbreathable air of the summit, lacking those wings with which the rest of the journey has to be accomplished. For it is from there that the real ascent begins. The ropes and axes are “done away” and the rest is a matter of flying."
-C.S. Lewis
I have always in my books been concerned simply to put forward "mere" Christianity, and am no guide on these (most regrettable) "interdenominational" questions. I do however strongly object to the tyrannic and unscriptural insolence of anything that calls itself a Church and makes teetotalism a condition of membership. -C.S. Lewis
Yes, I read that quote too. I disagreed with that one though.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Darth J wrote:1. Who gives a s*** what C.S. Lewis thinks?
Sometimes we think he stated things better than us. We're willing to give him credit. But you are right in that Mormons should not quote Lewis as an authority. He is not an authority of Christianity in general nor especially of Christianity as it pertains to Mormons.
2. Mormons co-opting C.S. Lewis' apologetics for a type of Christianity that is not similar to the folk magic/Freemasonry/gnosticism casserole that is Mormonism is kind of intellectually dishonest.
I agree that it's wrong to imply that Lewis would approve of Mormonism. He would see it as a perversion of Christianity. Even so, I still respect Lewis for many of the things he wrote.
So, back on topic: do you have anything to say about Nehor's quotes from Lewis other than the fact that Lewis wouldn't have liked Nehor quoting him? Did Nehor misquote Lewis, take it out of context, or otherwise misrepresent Lewis's views (or indeed LDS views)?
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO