Nice will not get you into heaven

[_Darth J]

Yes, I read that quote too. I disagreed with that one though.

Of course you did. Pretend that C.S. Lewis is a covert spokesman for Mormonism, and disregard the things he said that don't fit that theory.

That's what cafeteria Mormons do with the prophets, seers, and revelators, so why not an overrated, neurotic hack?

P.S. "Overrated, neurotic hack" refers to C.S. Lewis, not General Authorities. I apologize for the apparent redundancy.

[_zeezrom]

asbestosman,

good points were made in response to my OP, including the quote from Nehor, scripturesearcher, hoops, and others. Something to think about.

However, I still think something is wrong with a doctrine that teaches my Hindu friend will go to hell for trying his best to be a good person, following his religion and rejecting Christianity.

[_asbestosman]

However, I still think something is wrong with a doctrine that teaches my Hindu friend will go to hell for trying his best to be a good person, following his religion and rejecting Christianity.

I take it that the Mormon principle of "redeem the dead" fails to offer sufficient solace. Another principle I think is worthwhile is the degrees of glory. Some compare the Terrestrial Kingdom (where good people go) to the general Christian notion of heaven.

[_The Nehor]

I agree that it's wrong to imply that Lewis would approve of Mormonism. He would see it as a perversion of Christianity. Even so, I still respect Lewis for many of the things he wrote.

So, back on topic: do you have anything to say about Nehor's quotes from Lewis other than the fact that Lewis wouldn't have liked Nehor quoting him? Did Nehor misquote Lewis, take it out of context, or otherwise misrepresent Lewis's views (or indeed LDS views)?

Yeah, C.S. Lewis wouldn't like the LDS faith. However, as Christians and he being a staunch defender of 'mere Christianity' I don't think he would take it amiss if I were to use his quotes to say what I would like to say but can't say as well as he does.

This is a nice way to dismiss his/my thoughts though.

[_The Nehor]

Yes, I read that quote too. I disagreed with that one though.

Of course you did. Pretend that C.S. Lewis is a covert spokesman for Mormonism, and disregard the things he said that don't fit that theory.

That's what cafeteria Mormons do with the prophets, seers, and revelators, so why not an overrated, neurotic hack?

P.S. "Overrated, neurotic hack" refers to C.S. Lewis, not General Authorities. I apologize for the apparent redundancy.

Wow, so quoting someone is actually a sneaky attempt to suggest that they agree with you on everything? I will now read most academic papers in a new light.

From this I can draw one of two conclusions:

A) If your theory is correct then everyone they quote and everyone those people quote are all in total agreement on everything or it's a sneaky deception to acquire covert spokesman.

B) You are an idiot looking for things to complain about because you're a maladjusted little git.

Guess which one I'm leaning towards.

[_Darth J]

So, back on topic: do you have anything to say about Nehor's quotes from Lewis other than the fact that Lewis wouldn't have liked Nehor quoting him? Did Nehor misquote Lewis, take it out of context, or otherwise misrepresent Lewis's views (or indeed LDS views)?

Yes. It seems very Nietzschean to me. And if you understand what Lewis meant by being gods, you will see how Friedrich Nietzsche's superman concept fits. And there is a lot of Jung, Buddhism, and Taoism in there, too. Lewis is just repeating ideas found in numerous ideologies and calling it "Christianity."

I understand totally what you mean about the superman thing. In the sense that the philosopher Nietzsche understood the concept of the Superman or Ubermensch as the ultimate goal of life. He talked about the age of the Final man when people would degenerate into a lowly unrealized state and when mediocrity would be elevated to be perceived as excellence. Final man is the degenerate, uninspired state of being and Nietzsche described how from this context of Final man, the Super Man (or Super Men I believe) will emerge. I believe the present age is the age of Final Man and also that what Nietzsche was describing is the same thing as what the Prophecies in World Religion are talking about, i.e. mankind's state of relative decline especially along the spiritual dimension and the coming of the future chosen one(s).

I know Nietzsche was heavily into Zoroastrian religion and in this faith is found the concept of the Saoshyant or future Saviour of mankind and renovator of the World. The Jews borrowed this idea during their exile in Babylon and which became the concept of the Messiah in Judaism. I believe all these ideas i.e. Superman, Saoshyant, Messiah etc. are really equivalent. Also the idea of the Mythic quest hero found in modern myths such as Star Wars, the Matrix Trilogy and Lord of the Rings etc. is really a reworking of this same general idea.

When a person recognizes that his or her true nature is God, then I believe that the path to realizing this truth within is really to awaken divine archetypes or facets of God within, and further to become a vessel for the sacred. I believe that the process of awakening the Superman, Messiah or Mythic Hero is to truly and seriously embark on the spiritual odyssey of self realization and divine manifestation. This process is akin to the practice of Deity Yoga found in Tantra in Hinduism and Tibetan Tantric Buddhism. This is the best and optimal path to God realization or Enlightenment in the present age I believe.

http://www.iawwai.com/IAQ/SupermanMessi ... cHero.html

Ironically, TBM's childish, total dependence on the Church for what they should think and how they should act--down to the minutiae of their speech, dress, and sexual behavior within their own marriages---deprives them of the ability to develop the self-actualization that Mormonism purports to be its ultimate goal.

That is why the result of being a believing Mormon is usually not self-actualization, but epidemic neurosis.

P.S. I deliberately said "childish", not "child-like."

[_zeezrom]

I take it that the Mormon principle of "redeem the dead" fails to offer sufficient solace.

Let's say the person rejects Mormonism but tries to be the best person he/she can given their honest and heartfelt interpretation of what is true. Can you fault that person if the doctrines don't ring true to them? Is Mormonism going to suddenly be different in the afterlife that they will want to change their views at that point? Would proxy ordinances matter if the doctrines are the same in the afterlife and are just as unpalatable as before?

Or do we get to heaven and God reveals to everyone the truth behind the Book of Mormon translation and Book of Abraham, showing us that it was actually true? Well, what good is that? Now we all have certain knowledge of what is true and lose the opportunity to use our own reasoning skills and possibly even agency.

[_Darth J]

Wow, so quoting someone is actually a sneaky attempt to suggest that they agree with you on everything? I will now read most academic papers in a new light.

From this I can draw one of two conclusions:

A) If your theory is correct then everyone they quote and everyone those people quote are all in total agreement on everything or it's a sneaky deception to acquire covert spokesman.

B) You are an idiot looking for things to complain about because you're a maladjusted little git.

Guess which one I'm leaning towards.

It isn't just "quoting" C.S. Lewis. Neal A. Maxwell was a drooling C.S. Lewis fanboy, and Lewis has been regularly discussed in conference talks. And check out C.S. Lewis at Deseret Book. Mormons frequently think they have found a kindred spirit in Lewis. I cited a research paper in Dialogue about this aspect of Mormon culture. You have provided nothing to rebut what I have said.

As soon as you can show me a talk from General Conference quoting Nietzsche to explain eternal progression, then you will have a point.

Until that happens, it remains that Mormons quote C.S. Lewis to give the impression that Lewis is advocating a type of Christianity that is compatible with LDS theology, which is either disingenuous or abysmally uninformed. Guess which one I'm leaning towards?

[_Jersey Girl]

DJ

Until that happens, it remains that Mormons quote C.S. Lewis to give the impression that Lewis is advocating a type of Christianity that is compatible with LDS theology, which is either disingenuous or abysmally uninformed.

Twice.

[_Inconceivable]

How about a homosexual who looks at me funny? Can I deck him? It's [b]essentially the same thing[/b].

What if a missionary tries to teach me about the church? Can I shoot him? It's essentially the same thing.

Schmo,
I'm glad at least someone else caught this statement.

Child molestor = Homosexual

incredible.

Hey BC,

There's a vacant spot in the White House press room. You want it? It's right up front.