The Nehor wrote:Darth J wrote:It isn't just "quoting" C.S. Lewis. Neal A. Maxwell was a drooling C.S. Lewis fanboy, and Lewis has been regularly discussed in conference talks. And check out C.S. Lewis at
Deseret Book. Mormons frequently think they have found a kindred spirit in Lewis. I cited a research paper in
Dialogue about this aspect of Mormon culture. You have provided nothing to rebut what I have said.
Yes, that's because you keep changing what you say. First you accuse me of stealing Lewis as a covert Mormon and then when I argue against that you shift your rant to being about Mormons in general.
To change what I am saying, I would have to say something inconsistent. Saying that you specifically are trying to make C.S. Lewis into a Mormon apologist because Mormons generally do this is completely consistent.
The Nehor wrote:Darth J wrote:As soon as you can show me a talk from General Conference quoting Nietzsche to explain eternal progression, then you will have a point.
So to prove our unbiased nature we have to compare our beliefs to every philosopher and theologian who ever lived even if they have nothing in common with what we teach for fear of giving the impression that one particular person is a 'covert Mormon'.
No, it's the idea of "faith promoting" references to someone whose ideology is diametrically opposed to Mormonism. From Lewis'
Mere Christianity:
"One of the marks of a certain type of bad man is that he cannot give up a thing without wanting every one else to give it up. That is not the Christian way. An individual Christian may see fit to give up all sorts of things for special reasons -- marriage, or meat, or beer, or the cinema; but the moment he starts saying the things are bad in themselves, or looking down his nose at other people who do use them, he has taken the wrong turning."Lewis' ideas about Christianity do not fit the LDS Church's command-and-control attitude toward not only its members, but to third parties. The temperance that the Church calls "the Word of Wisdom" (which is not in reality an adoption of D&C 89 as a commandment) was imposed on members because of Heber J. Grant's beliefs about the temperance movement and his desire for members of the Church to vote for prohibition, which imposed temperance (the alcohol part, anyway) on everyone in the United States. Then we have the Church leaders' diktats about oral sex between married spouses, numbers of earrings women can wear, rated-R movies, etc. But even that isn't enough. The Church has to impose its standards on the rest of the world, too: opposition to parimutuel betting, Prop 8 support, opposition to the ERA, etc. When the Church says it reserves the right to become involved in "moral issues", what it means is that it reserves the right to use political campaigns to impose its morality on other people.
The Nehor wrote:Darth J wrote:Until that happens, it remains that Mormons quote C.S. Lewis to give the impression that Lewis is advocating a type of Christianity that is compatible with LDS theology, which is either disingenuous or abysmally uninformed. Guess which one I'm leaning towards?
President Monson has talked about the Christmas Carol a lot and obviously holds it in high esteem. I guess that should be used as evidence that Charles Dickens is also a 'covert Mormon'. Soon we will have all Mormons thinking that Charles Dickens' views on Christianity are totally compatible with LDS theology. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!
Dickens is famous for writing about social issues in Victorian England. That's very different from C.S. Lewis, who is famous for being a Christian apologist. To my knowledge, no one has ever used Charles Dickens to try to show that Mormonism is compatible with maintstream Christianity and to teach substantive doctrinal ideas. Lewis, on the other hand, is used constantly for these purposes.
For example, prolific dumb ass Jeff Lindsay
has a page on his website where he disingenuously says that the LDS doctrine of exaltation just means that we'll all sort of be angels, which he and every other Mormon knows damn well is not what exaltation means. Then he repeatedly invokes C.S. Lewis to show how Mormon exaltation is compatible with Christianity, beginning with, "LDS doctrine on this needlessly controversial issue is similar to the teachings of C.S. Lewis, who also understood the divine potential of humans beings." This is so not even close to what C.S. Lewis meant by "gods" that Lindsay may as well have used Boba Fett to teach tithing.
FARMS also put out a work called
Latter-day Christianity: 10 Basic Issues that ridiculously relied on C.S. Lewis'
Mere Christianity to suggest that Mormonism is compatible with mainstream Christianity. Then you have LDS authors trying to explain how C.S. Lewis was explaining LDS doctrine in his books.
From
"Mormon Times" in the Deseret News:
C.S. Lewis was not LDS. He may, in fact, not have even liked The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
But Mormons love C. S. Lewis.
Authors Marianna Richardson and Christine Thackeray looked at the famous Christian apologist in their book "C.S. Lewis: Latter-day Truths in Narnia." They wrote about the letters Lewis sent to many of his readers.
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"Lewis did not have the fullness of the gospel in this life," Richardson and Thackeray write. "Yet, he did understand great truths and had an incredible ability to clearly convey the principles which he knew to be true."
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Richardson and Thackeray wrote that Lewis has been referenced about 100 times in church-sponsored publications — about one-third of which were during general conference addresses. He has been quoted thousands of times "throughout LDS writing."
"Even Shakespeare pales in comparison to the number of times C.S. Lewis has been quoted by Mormon authors, scholars, and General Authorities to illustrate or emphasize doctrinal truths," the authors write.
President Ezra Taft Benson's well-known talk on pride, for example, drew heavily upon Lewis' work — placing it in an LDS context. President Benson quoted Lewis and, according to Richardson and Thackeray, "Using scriptural examples and modern revelation, he expands on it, bringing specific suggestions to assist us in recognizing and changing this common weakness among the Saints and in our own lives."
Richardson and Thackeray cite several quotes from Lewis to show his doctrinal and spiritual affinity with Mormon sensibilities:
* "Christ says, 'Give me All. I don't want so much of your time and so much of your money and so much of your work: I want You.'"
* "The more often he feels without acting, the less he will be able ever to act, and, in the long run, the less he will be able to feel."
* "God wants to give us something, but cannot, because our hands are full — there's nowhere for Him to put it."
* "The great thing, if one can, is to stop regarding all the unpleasant things as interruptions of one's 'own,' or 'real' life. The truth is of course that what one calls the interruptions are precisely one's real life — the life God is sending one day by day."
* "Indeed, the safest road to Hell is the gradual one — the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts."
* "A silly idea is current that good people do not know what temptation means. This is an obvious lie. Only those who try to resist temptation know how strong it is. ... You find out the strength of a wind by trying to walk against it, not by lying down."
Richardson and Thackeray admit that Lewis differed in his beliefs in many ways from members of the LDS Church. But this hasn't stopped Mormons from enjoying and learning from Lewis in the light of modern revelation. Richardson and Thackeray quote William Clayton Kimball's assessment: "(T)hese differences in doctrine do not diminish his power as an articulate ally in the cause of Christian decency. We sometimes forget that there are pearls of great price not produced in our own oyster beds."The special place C.S. Lewis has in Mormondom is not analogous to quoting Robert Frost, Charles Dickens, or some other poet or author. C.S. Lewis has been adopted by Mormons
as if his ideas about Christianity are similar---or even the same as---Mormon doctrine. But they aren't. The ridiculous myth that what C.S. Lewis defined as Christianity and what the LDS Church defines as Christianity is, as I said before, either disingenuous or abysmally uniformed.