so it will be at least read.

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_Tarski
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so it will be at least read.

Post by _Tarski »

I get the impression that what I post at MAD is not read too much these days. Only part of any given post will be read and not very carefully.

Maybe I don't post the quality material that I used to (I am tired of it all these days).

In anycase, I thought I would repost a response I gave here just because I know some of you guys will at least read it.

Someone in the atheist thread responded to my assertion that disbelief was higher among scientist with

"May I refer you to "Mormon Scholars testify?".


I responded as follows:
"For what? A tiny list of exceptions that I already know about? I never said all scientists are atheists.
I am only pointing out how strange it is that people bring up these subjects like complexity as if such considerations nearly prove the existence of God, when many (maybe most) of those who know about the complexity of the universe in greatest detail are apparently not so moved to believe.

In my own small way I am one of them. I am a PhD mathematician well versed in physics and have read more nonfiction science books than any other kind of book by a factor of ten (well, philosophy books are also high on my list). This pursuit of science and its theological implications has been going on like an obsession for around 35 years. In my case, the more I get into it, the less reason I see for believing in a personal God. I am far from alone.
On my street, no one is an atheist but in the hallway where my office is, close to half are atheist/agnostic or at least irreligious. In biology departments at top universities such as Berkeley, Cal Tech, MIT etc. I venture an educated guess that the overwhelming majority do not believe in a personal God.

http://www.stephenja...ws/file002.html

Finally, I would like to point out that the testimonies found on Mormon Scholars Testify are generally more restrained in tone, generally less assertive of supernatural realities and less expressive of revelatory certainty than most testimonies I have heard given by housewives in testimony meetings that I have attended.
As my mother once pointed out, intellectuals in the church seem to have relatively weaker testimonies and watered down, slightly secularized understandings of the gospel. I think she is on to something.

I chuckle to imagine what my dear old mother would think of Mfbukowski's assertion that truth isn't eternal. lol

Ultimately, scientific literacy is not really faith promoting and philosophical dilettantism just produces stillborn nonsense when bred in captivity with Mormon theology. many seem to feel that the trick is to rework the gospel a bit and lower expectations about prophet-hood, scriptural accuracy and personal revelation. (no global flood, ancient earth, no tower of Babel, LGT, catalyst theories of the Book of Abraham and the ad hoc two headed monster theories that combine evolution with Adam.)"
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie

yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
_Gadianton
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Re: so it will be at least read.

Post by _Gadianton »

LOL!

What they need to do is begin baptizing non-Mormon scientists since science proves there is a Mormon ape-shaped God. I don't think that's going to happen, they can't even convert Margret Barker!
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Hoops
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Re: so it will be at least read.

Post by _Hoops »

That is a well written, thought out, rebuttal, Tarski. You are, indeed, a worthy sparring partner.

But my sword is longer.
_Tarski
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Re: so it will be at least read.

Post by _Tarski »

Hoops wrote:That is a well written, thought out, rebuttal, Tarski. You are, indeed, a worthy sparring partner.

But my sword is longer.

But is it thicker?
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie

yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
_Hoops
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Re: so it will be at least read.

Post by _Hoops »

Tarski wrote:
Hoops wrote:That is a well written, thought out, rebuttal, Tarski. You are, indeed, a worthy sparring partner.

But my sword is longer.

But is it thicker?



Of course.
_Tarski
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Re: so it will be at least read.

Post by _Tarski »

Hoops wrote:


Of course.

I assume that your avatar is not a photo of you.
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie

yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
_Hoops
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Re: so it will be at least read.

Post by _Hoops »

Tarski wrote:
Hoops wrote:


Of course.

I assume that your avatar is not a photo of you.




Ah, the mysteries that science can not solve!
_Tarski
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Re: so it will be at least read.

Post by _Tarski »

Hoops wrote:


Ah, the mysteries that science can not solve!

@&%$@#&%!!!
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie

yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
_Hoops
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Re: so it will be at least read.

Post by _Hoops »

Tarski wrote:
Hoops wrote:


Ah, the mysteries that science can not solve!

@&%$@#&%!!!



Ok, serious comment for you though. i have a friend that travelled the same road you have, yet in the opposite direction. It's quite possible you know the name, and he is world reknowned in his field, which overlaps your field. I think. In my field, we find you guys entirely boring and void of anything interesting at all. (insert smiley)

I bring that up to mention that if the conclusions you've drawn are so inescapable, why wouldn't every mathematician arrive where you have? Doesn't that mean there is something else in play? And, if that's given, isn't that something "other" the critical pivot point?
_asbestosman
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Re: so it will be at least read.

Post by _asbestosman »

I'm a bit cautious of drawing conclusions from correlation despite the fact that it is often useful and sometimes the only thing we have available. It would be nice if we could do controlled experiments to quantify how much scientific knowledge impacts religiosity. In the absence of that the evidence, while interesting, is suspect. After all, race and gender correlate with mathematical ability. However, there's a good chance that the real correlation lies more in economic status and cultural influence. Perhaps, then, there is a certain cultural influence to being a scientist--I strongly suspect so and that one aspect it deals with is religion.
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