What is a "Mormon"?

[_Darth J]

By request, I am starting a mutant thread from the "Warren Jeffs/ Joseph Smith" one.

Over yonder at the MADhouse, they've got---or did have---a thread about "what is an anti-Mormon?"

This of course begs the question: "what is a Mormon?"

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has insinuated for a long time that it owns the term "Mormons." This implies, naturally, that it alone is the correct branch of Joseph Smithism. Some of us may remember those heartwarming (or possibly emetic) commercials that the Church used to run about good values that would end with: "From the Mormons: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." The overlooked implication being, of course, that the members of the LDS Church are the Mormons---i.e., to the exclusion of such claims by anyone else.

There was a brief time in early Utah Territory history when what there was of LDS apologetics was in response to missionaries from the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints claiming that they were the true church of Joseph Smith. A great deal of the LDS response had to do with proving that Joseph Smith really did practice polygamy, in a really sexual way (which the RLDS Church was denying). I talked about this in another thread, which you can read, or you can ignore. I don't even care if you read it. Just go to hell.

Sorry, I got distracted.

Anyway, there are numerous organizations that claim to be continuing what Joseph Smith started. Off the top of my head, there are the Nephite Church of Christ (no, I didn't make that up), The True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days, the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Strangites, the Community of Christ, the Bickeronites, and others that I'm not thinking of off the top of my head.

What these organizations have in common is that they believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet and that the Book of Mormon is scripture. And yet the LDS Church continues to act as if it has a monopoly on "Mormonism." For example, regarding polygamist churches being labeled "Mormon" BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE IN JOSEPH SMITH AND THE Book of Mormon, the Church registered the following complaint with the media:

President Gordon B. Hinckley's stated the following about polygamy in the Church's October 1998 general conference:

"I wish to state categorically that this Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church. Most of them have never been members. They are in violation of the civil law. They know they are in violation of the law. They are subject to its penalties. The Church, of course, has no jurisdiction whatever in this matter.

"If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church. An article of our faith is binding upon us. It states, 'We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law' (Articles of Faith 1:12). One cannot obey the law and disobey the law at the same time.

"There is no such thing as a 'Mormon Fundamentalist.' It is a contradiction to use the two words together."

The LDS Church also tried, unsuccessfully, to register "Mormon" as a trademark.

In the United States, in 2002, the LDS Church applied for a trademark on "Mormon" as applied to religious services; however, the United States Patent and Trademark Office rejected the application, stating that the term "Mormon" was too generic, and is popularly understood as referring to a particular kind of church, similar to "Presbyterian" or "Methodist", rather than a service mark.

The LDS Church also claims that when one gains a testimony of the Book of Mormon, they will also know that the LDS Church is the true church----neglecting to mention that there are other organizations that also believe in the Book of Mormon.

From the LDS Church's introduction to the Book of Mormon:

We invite all men everywhere to read the Book of Mormon, to ponder in their hearts the message it contains, and then to ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ if the book is true. Those who pursue this course and ask in faith will gain a testimony of its truth and divinity by the power of the Holy Ghost. (See Moroni 10: 3-5.)
Those who gain this divine witness from the Holy Spirit will also come to know by the same power that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world, that Joseph Smith is his revelator and prophet in these last days, and that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Lord’s kingdom once again established on the earth, preparatory to the second coming of the Messiah.

In more talks than I am inclined to link to right now, LDS leaders refer to the Book of Mormon as "the keystone of our religion." However, they are subtly equivocating about "our religion." "Our religion" does not mean Mormonism; it means LDS Church-ism.

I have seen very, very little (read: pretty much none) LDS apologetics about why its claims of its leaders being Joseph Smith's rightful successors are any better than the claims of James Strang, or Joseph Smith III, or John with. Woolley, or others claiming that same succession. And I have seen absolutely no argument as to why the LDS Church gets a monopoly on getting to call themselves Mormons, as Gordon B. Hinckley and others have insinuated.

Anyone care to make the case as to why the LDS Church has any valid claim to the Tigger routine:

"But the most wonderful thing about Mormons is we're the only ones!

WE'RE......

THE ONLY ONES!"

Pictured: An LDS Church public relations spokesperson

[_truth dancer]

The LDS church is Christian in the same way the FLDS church is Mormon.

Or, the LDS church is not Christian in the same way the FLDS church is not Mormon.

Or something. ;-)

~td~

[_Paracelsus]

The LDS church is Christian in the same way the FLDS church is Mormon.

Or, the LDS church is not Christian in the same way the FLDS church is not Mormon.

Or something. ;-)

~td~

There were an old joke about arab-israeli conflict:

- Do you understand the Near East ... ehm ... status ... ehm ... situation?
- Wait a minute, I will explain it!
- No, please, I can explain it, too. I've asked if you understand it.

[_Paul Osborne]

I'm a Mormon, Godmamnit.

I hold the holy priesthood. It's fit for the toilet. Flush!

Hail Satan, O Lucifer our brother! Hear the words of my mouth, O Lord God Shulem of the holy temple! Appear before me! Hear me lord Shulem! Cut my throat if I lie before you. Hahahahahha!!!

Never reveal the name Shulem to the less worthy members of the church. Kneel before Lucifer!

Keep quiet. Lucifer cometh. Praise him!

Paul O

[_MsJack]

In my book, Darth, any member of any religious tradition that places strong emphasis on the prophetic status of Joseph Smith, Jr. and the divine origins of the Book of Mormon has the right to call himself/herself "Mormon." I also think that "Mormon" can be something of a cultural term applying to people who were born and/or raised in an LDS tradition, but no longer believe in it, similar to how you'll meet people who will self-identify as "Jewish" or "Presbyterian" even though they no longer believe in any of the distinctives of those religions and haven't been to synagogue/church in years.

The only people that really excludes are people for whom the prophetic status of Joseph Smith is technically believed but not particularly central to their theology; for example, some Baha'i believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, yet I wouldn't call them "Mormons."

Can the CoC, the Temple Lot Church, the Nephite Church of Christ, the Strangites, and the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints identify as "Mormon" if they wish? My answer is "yes," and as far as I'm concerned, those churches are part of the greater "Mormon religious tradition." To my knowledge, however, the only other LDS tradition that is really interested in identifying as "Mormon" is the FLDS church. The others don't want it.

I've always found the church's attempts to limit "Mormon" to its own branch deeply ironic and just a tad hypocritical given its unwillingness to acknowledge why its claims to Christianity are even an issue for other Christians. The church certainly doesn't have to agree with their assessment of the religion as non-Christian, but this baffled "How could they even say that!" attitude just betrays a lack of perspective.

I think the best essay I have seen on this matter was, "Are Mormons Christians? Are Post Toasties corn flakes?" by Rebecca J. over at By Common Consent.

[_MCB]

Mormons believe that the Book of Mormon is sacred scripture. Mormons have no standard interpretation of the Book of Mormon, because they have been unable to find parallel writings in the context of their understanding of the origins of the book, other than the Bible. And even relating the Book of Mormon to the Bible is difficult, because much of the Bible was written AFTER the supposed authors of the Book of Mormon came to the Americas. They need such parallel writings in order to get consistent meaning out of the book, which is remarkably inconsistent, which is what one would expect from a book cobbled together from multiple authors.

Therefore, the only consistent definition of Mormon is believers in the Book of Mormon.

Therefore, they must depend upon non-Mormons to interpret the book in an ethically consistent way, through the use of parallel texts, which were available in New England in the time period from 1812 to 1830.

To paraphrase Paul O and Nightlion, thus says the prophetess, out of her own frustration.

[_Joseph]

The May 15, 1843 issue of the official Mormon periodical Times and Seasons contains an article, purportedly written by Joseph Smith, Jr., deriving the etymology of the name "Mormon" from English "more" + Egyptian mon, "good", and extolling the meaning as follows:

It has been stated that this word [Mormon] was derived from the Greek word mormo. This is not the case. There was no Greek or Latin upon the plates from which I, through the grace of God, translated the Book of Mormon. Let the language of that book speak for itself. On the 523d page, of the fourth edition, it reads: And now behold we have written this record according to our knowledge in the characters which are called among us the Reformed Egyptian ... none other people knoweth our language; therefore [God] hath prepared means for the interpretation thereof." ... [The] Bible in its widest sense, means good; for the Savior says according to the gospel of John, "I am the good shepherd;" and it will not be beyond the common use of terms, to say that good is among the most important in use, and though known by various names in different languages, still its meaning is the same, and is ever in opposition to bad. We say from the Saxon, good; the Dane, god; the Goth, goda; the German, gut; the Dutch, goed; the Latin, bonus; the Greek, kalos; the Hebrew, tob; and the Egyptian, mon. Hence, with the addition of more, or the contraction, mor, we have the word MOR-MON; which means, literally, more good.
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Maybe Joseph wrote it, maybe he didn't. The Holy Ghost is not letting most of us know The Truth of that.
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In some countries, Mormon and some phrases including the term are registered trademarks owned by Intellectual Reserve, Inc. (a holding company for the LDS Church's intellectual property).[17] In the United States, the LDS Church has applied for a trademark on "Mormon" as applied to religious services; however, the United States Patent and Trademark Office rejected the application, stating that the term "Mormon" was too generic, and is popularly understood as referring to a particular kind of church, similar to "Presbyterian" or "Methodist", rather than a service mark.[18] The application was abandoned as of August 22, 2007.[19] In all, the Intellectual Reserve, Inc. owns more than 60 trademarks related to the term Mormon.

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Mormon? Mormon without the m?