Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!

[_Trevor]

So, I am implying that poor people rarely going to travel there.

But what percentage of the active membership will?

[_Tchild]

If the church had financial transparency, its members would see clearly how uncharitable of a so called Christian church that it really is (% donated compared to income).

It is interesting that you claim the church is not transparent but you ALREADY know it isn't very charitable. If it is so secret, how did you get this special knowledge?

JMS

It is a guesstimate based on donation amounts the LDS PR department itself has disclosed and total income estimates for the LDS church compiled by both the Arizona Republic and Time magazine a few years back: Arizona Republic about 4 billion in total income and Time Magazine at about 5.9 billion. http://www.lds-mormon.com/time.shtml

The church itself disclosed donations over a ten year period of 750 million. I cannot find the original source URL, but have heard both this 750 million dollar figure, and another for 600 million over ten years:

In Jan. 2006, from the Church PR department, (Deseret News Publishing Company): Edgley said, “that since 1984, the LDS Church has donated nearly $750 million in cash and goods to people in need in more than 150 countries.”

So Jskains, you do the math. 750 Mil divided by 22 years equals 34 million per year.

Now, instead of assuming 4.0-5.9 billion per year since 1984, lets use a blended rate of say, 3 billion, to accomodate for years in the mid 80's where income receipts may have not been as high as they are in the late 90's and 2000's.

So Jskains, what is the percentage of 3 billion in income vs 34 million in donations?

yep, a paltry 1%. Think of it this way. If you made $ 3,000 a month and spent 30 bucks a month of it on your dog for food, shelter, shots, vet trips etc etc. You would be spending on your dog, what the LDS church spends on humanitarian aid on a percentage basis.

[_Paracelsus]

So, I am implying that poor people rarely going to travel there.

But what percentage of the active membership will?

1. In the next few hours, I will have some real data about our EQ. I sweep the papers ...
2. How to define an active member?

Sorry, I am in hurry of sunday morning. (Sounds familiar?)

[_moksha]

These are unprovable claims.

JMS

Like no tithing money being involved?

[_The Mighty Builder]

On Jun 10 I posted where the funding is coming from for the City Creek Center. I titled it

No Tithing Money Used

The story that “No Tithing Funds” are being used in the construction of the City Creek Center is the same as:

A woman marries an alcoholic man who has not worked since his teenage years. She marries him out of desperation and loneliness.

For the marriage to work she gets a job, gives him an allowance so he can buy beer and be home for her.

Several years go by and one day she comes home from work to find him in their bed with a prostitute. This is just too much for her.

Her – “Of all the things I have suffered under your hands, this is the worst!! I give you money, I pay all the bills, I have two jobs, I do the housework and this is how you repay me, cheating on me with a whore in my own bed!”

His reply – “Now wait one minute woman. I will have you know that not one dime of your money was spent on this expense. Why for years I have been saving up my empties and it was with the money I got from recycling my beer cans that I was able to afford this indulgence.”

For your information the Money to build City Creek Center is the Ensign Investment Fund money or in other words the Church Employee Retirement fund which has about 5 Billion dollars in assets. Some money is coming from the “General Fund” and other sources.

[_Tchild]

For your information the Money to build City Creek Center is the Ensign Investment Fund money or in other words the Church Employee Retirement fund which has about 5 Billion dollars in assets. Some money is coming from the “General Fund” and other sources.

So, the "Ensign Investment Fund" is a sort of Pension trust deemed a "retirement fund" for the LDS employees?

Given that knowledge, it does make fiscal sense to allocate those monies in a diversified and income producing portfolio, especially one that the church itself can control and manage (City Creek Center).

As someone who is very bleak on the dollar, the balloning budget deficits, the national debt (debt % to GDP) and the unfunded liabilities of Social Security and Medicare, diversifying OUT of the dollar, and dollar denominated stocks and bonds is really a prudent long term investment decision. In fact, it might be one of the most "prophetic" decisions the church makes. The dollar and its debt denominated in the same, could greatly devalue or be nearly worthless overnight.

MB- I am curious if you know the total leaseable square footage of all the commercial properties and the average rents per sq. foot of City Creek? I would be interested in estimating the ROI of this 4+ billion dollar investment.

[_lostindc]

So, the "Ensign Investment Fund" is a sort of Pension trust deemed a "retirement fund" for the LDS employees?

Given that knowledge, it does make fiscal sense to allocate those monies in a diversified and income producing portfolio, especially one that the church itself can control and manage (City Creek Center).

As someone who is very bleak on the dollar, the balloning budget deficits, the national debt (debt % to GDP) and the unfunded liabilities of Social Security and Medicare, diversifying OUT of the dollar, and dollar denominated stocks and bonds is really a prudent long term investment decision. In fact, it might be one of the most "prophetic" decisions the church makes. The dollar and its debt denominated in the same, could greatly devalue or be nearly worthless overnight.

MB- I am curious if you know the total leaseable square footage of all the commercial properties and the average rents per sq. foot of City Creek? I would be interested in estimating the ROI of this 4+ billion dollar investment.

This just went way to technical for my background. All I know is that I struggle to want to pay tithing when I KNOW that this crap is going on...