The future is almost here.

[_EAllusion]

From Nate Silver:



It's only a matter of time before same sex marriage support overtakes its opposition in public opinion polling. It's getting close. There has been a multigenerational shift in attitudes towards gays and gay relationships. Gay civil rights issues are already quite popular among the young. As the old die and the young replace them, more and more will acceptance of homosexuality become the norm. Niche opposition will always exist, but more and more will the more strident forms have to be closeted. History appreciates irony, it would seem.

So with that in mind, let's work on our apologetics for tomorrow today. How can we explain how the LDS Church's opposition to homosexual relationships really wasn't an opposition to homosexual relationships per se? How do we excuse this for the children of tomorrow?

Aaaaaaaaaand go.

[_Analytics]

Homophobic attitudes in various forms have permeated human civilization throughout the ages, and Latter-day Saints in the past often shared the same assumptions and attitudes that were dominant among Americans. However, the modern Church is outspoken against homophobia, and the official doctrines of the Church have long taught that people of all sexual orientations are sons and daughters of our Heavenly Father and can be heirs of salvation. However, until 2058, there was a restriction on the temple ordinances that excluded same-sex couples, and this policy, often assumed to have been motivated by nothing but homophobia, raises many questions and issues. Yes, homophobia views have existed in the Church and among some of its members, especially in past days when it permeated American society, but for decades we have been moving past that and are more fully embracing the core doctrines of the Church in LDS scriptures: namely, that we are all precious children of a loving Heavenly Father, and salvation is open to all, regardless of sexual orientation.

[_Calculus Crusader]

While it (unfortunately) appears to be the case that SSM is widely accepted among the young, let's not forget that Carnac the Magnificent predicted Prop 8's defeat.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hello,

It was never doctrine.

V/R
Dr. CamNC4Me

[_bcspace]

It's only a matter of time before same sex marriage support overtakes its opposition in public opinion polling. It's getting close. There has been a multigenerational shift in attitudes towards gays and gay relationships. Gay civil rights issues are already quite popular among the young. As the old die and the young replace them, more and more will acceptance of homosexuality become the norm. Niche opposition will always exist, but more and more will the more strident forms have to be closeted. History appreciates irony, it would seem.

It's late, but not too late to establish laws and precedent to hold back the shift until it shifts again.

So with that in mind, let's work on our apologetics for tomorrow today. How can we explain how the LDS Church's opposition to homosexual relationships really wasn't an opposition to homosexual relationships per se? How do we excuse this for the children of tomorrow?

Ether 12:27 makes it so nothing has to change doctrinally. It simply does not matter from the LDS pov if homosexuality is inborn or not.

Homophobic attitudes in various forms have permeated human civilization throughout the ages, and Latter-day Saints in the past often shared the same assumptions and attitudes that were dominant among Americans. However, the modern Church is outspoken against homophobia, and the official doctrines of the Church have long taught that people of all sexual orientations are sons and daughters of our Heavenly Father and can be heirs of salvation. However, until 2058, there was a restriction on the temple ordinances that excluded same-sex couples, and this policy, often assumed to have been motivated by nothing but homophobia, raises many questions and issues. Yes, homophobia views have existed in the Church and among some of its members, especially in past days when it permeated American society,

"Homophobia" is a political tool, not an actual condition.

but for decades we have been moving past that and are more fully embracing the core doctrines of the Church in LDS scriptures: namely, that we are all precious children of a loving Heavenly Father, and salvation is open to all, regardless of sexual orientation.

Never at any time has the Church strayed from this.

[_MsJack]

EAllusion ~ I have to understand what it is we're anticipating apologetics for. Do you believe that the LDS church (or any other conservative religious faith tradition, for that matter) is going to switch to full-scale tolerance of homosexual relationships---and by that I mean not only acceptance of gay rights on a civil level, but acceptance of gay sexuality within their own ranks and clergy?

I think the former is inevitable, but the latter is questionable, especially where Mormonism is concerned.

[_Jason Bourne]

Ether 12:27 makes it so nothing has to change doctrinally. It simply does not matter from the LDS pov if homosexuality is inborn or not.

.

Of course. And since Blacks were born black that is part of the weaknesses they had to bear and suffer with while the priesthood and temple blessings were withheld. Except that weakness could not be made string BC as the verse teaches. Nor can homosexuality be made strong if it is inborn. The person is as much homosexual as you are hetero. So it is not in the class of weaknesses that Ether 12:27 speaks of.

In addition, it seems a cruel God to make someone a certain way then forbid any opportunity to have loving relationship.

Last of all E, the LDS Chuch will not change it stance on homosexuals. Just look at what BC says. And there are other things it has not back peddled on. WOW, premarital sex issues and so on.

[_The Dude]

Last of all E, the LDS Chuch will not change it stance on homosexuals. Just look at what BC says. And there are other things it has not back peddled on. WOW, premarital sex issues and so on.

WOW and premarital sex are not social issues. There is precedent for major backpedaling when the church's stance on social issues becomes outdated. There is polygamy, of course. And have you not heard the famous couplet?

As gays are, Blacks once were
As Blacks are, gays may become.

It's not a famous couplet yet, but it will be. The future is almost here.

[Alf'Omega]

I remember saying around 6 years ago (on another forum) that the church would have another "revelation" and change their stance on homosexuality and SSM as soon as 10 years have passed beyond it becoming politically incorrect for the vast majority to discriminate against gay marriage.

People were responding with "it'll never happen" but I'm willing to bet people thought the same about blacks too.

[_Analytics]

I remember saying around 6 years ago (on another forum) that the church would have another "revelation" and change their stance on homosexuality and SSM as soon as 10 years have passed beyond it becoming politically incorrect for the vast majority to discriminate against gay marriage.

People where responding with "it'll never happen" but I'm willing to bet people thought the same about blacks too.

Mormons certainly did say the same things about blacks.

Let's look at what's going on. Judging from that graph, we are close to the tipping point where more people are in favor of same-sex marriage than are opposed to it. The arguments against it aren't that persuasive, not even to judges in Iowa. It's quite possible that within a few years, same-sex marriage will be a Constititionally recognized right in all 50 states.

In another 20 years, virtually everybody under the age of 50 will see it as a total non-issue, and being against gay rights will be seen as cool and moral as being a member of the kkk. At that point, having a cool skateboarder go on T.V. and proudly say, "I'm a Mormon" will be equivalent to him going on T.V. and saying, "I'm a homophobic bigot." The church will be scorned. The vast majority of members underneath the age of 50 will find the church's position embarassing, and there will be discussions among the apostles about how they got to where they are, and if there was really any revelation to justify their position.

In 20 years after that, a Prophet will officially change the church's position, and the church will celebrate. Just as they now say, "it's only skin color, what really matters is what's on the inside", in 40 years they'll say, "it's only plumbing, what really matters is what's on the inside."