A Message For William Schryver.

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Ray A

A Message For William Schryver.

Post by _Ray A »

Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall. - Proverbs 16:18 (NIV)


From the “Metcalfe Schryver Debate Set to Go” thread


William Schryver wrote:If I am the picture of despicable vulgarity and crudeness that you suggest I am, then it should be a simple matter to demonstrate it by linking to posts I have made where this dark side of my character is manifest for all to see. And please don't bother linking to posts of other people claiming I said this, that, or the other. I've seen before how that clever little game works. Link to my own posts, so that we can see everything in its context and judge my nefarious deeds on their merits.


While in the process of writing this thread, Rev. Kishkumen beat me to the punchline:

Kishkumen wrote:
William Schryver wrote:I've never said anything to anyone on this message board about which I am ashamed or that wasn't fully deserved by the recipient thereof.


Gospel living according to the Living Christ:

Jesus Christ wrote:But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.


Gospel living according to William Schryver, and I paraphrase:

William Schryver in the MDB translation wrote:Some say unto you "turn the other cheek," but I say unto you, "give as good as you get."



It’s obvious to both of us, and I think it’s obvious to everyone except Schryver himself. How is it that one who boldly claims to have his “calling and election made sure”, which essentially means finding special favour with God and guaranteed exaltation except for “the shedding of innocent blood” or “denying the Holy Ghost”, can be so crass, insensitive and even vulgar? I suppose that requires a “special” understanding of this weirdly peculiar Mormon doctrine, which basically says that once you’ve attained this high status you can bonk whoever you desire, even kill a few “enemies of God”, and if it’s not authorised by God he’ll hand you over to Satan for a bit of buffeting before exaltation. Weird, weird, weird. But nevertheless, Schryver seems to feel that he has “special privileges”, and is immune to forms of accountability accepted by most of those who claim to be following Christian principles.

I’m under no illusion that Schryver will take note of any of this. There will be no sackcloth and ashes in response to this thread, and unfortunately this will be to his detriment, and his future victims of mockery, vulgarity, insults and judgementalism. I will quote from both Mormon and Christian scripture:

The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility. (Proverbs 15:33)

Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. (1 Peter 5:5)

And again I say unto you as I have said before, that as ye have come to the knowledge of the glory of God, or if ye have known of his goodness and have tasted of his love, and have received a remission of your sins, which causeth such exceedingly great joy in your souls, even so I would that ye should remember, and always retain in remembrance, the greatness of God, and your own nothingness, and his goodness and long-suffering towards you, unworthy creatures, and humble yourselves even in the depths of humility, calling on the name of the Lord daily, and standing steadfastly in the faith of that which is to come, which was spoken by the mouth of the angel. (Mosiah 4:11)

21 Now there was a strict law among the people of the church, that there should not any man, belonging to the church, arise and persecute those that did not belong to the church, and that there should be no persecution among themselves.
22 Nevertheless, there were many among them who began to be proud, and began to contend warmly with their adversaries, even unto blows; yea, they would smite one another with their fists.
23 Now this was in the *second year of the reign of Alma, and it was a cause of much affliction to the church; yea, it was the cause of much trial with the church.
24 For the hearts of many were hardened, and their names were blotted out, that they were remembered no more among the people of God. And also many withdrew themselves from among them.
25 Now this was a great trial to those that did stand fast in the faith; nevertheless, they were steadfast and immovable in keeping the commandments of God, and they bore with patience the persecution which was heaped upon them. (Alma 1)

6 Remember faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, brotherly kindness, godliness, charity, humility, diligence. (D&C 4:6)

26 And now behold, I say unto you, my brethren, if ye have experienced a change of heart, and if ye have felt to sing the song of redeeming love, I would ask, can ye feel so now?
27 Have ye walked, keeping yourselves blameless before God? Could ye say, if ye were called to die at this time, within yourselves, that ye have been sufficiently humble? That your garments have been cleansed and made white through the blood of Christ, who will come to redeem his people from their sins?
28 Behold, are ye stripped of pride? I say unto you, if ye are not ye are not prepared to meet God. Behold ye must prepare quickly; for the kingdom of heaven is soon at hand, and such an one hath not eternal life…
30 And again I say unto you, is there one among you that doth make a mock of his brother, or that heapeth upon him persecutions?
31 Wo unto such an one, for he is not prepared, and the time is at hand that he must repent or he cannot be saved! (Alma 5)

41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;
42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile
43 Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;
44 That he may know that thy faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death. (D&C 121)

2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. (Titus 3:2)

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith.. (Gal.5)

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient…(2 Tim)

17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. (James 3)

29 For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.
30 Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away.
(3 Nephi 11)

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? (Matthew 5)

Does William Schryver qualify as a “disciple of Christ”? This is not meant as a final condemnation or judgement of William, but a reproof in the hope that he will be able to “enlarge his soul, without hypocrisy”, or as Neal Maxwell phrased it, “reduce the hypocrisy in our lives”.

2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? (1 Cor.6)

The most effective message any Mormon can ever give, is to live as Christ lived, and to adhere to the 13th Article of Faith:

13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (James 2)


The ball is in your court, William, and I expect that you will deny and contend against all of this, and rail against me as a "liar and apostate slimeball", who should be "hung in the public square".

I'm cool with that. Because if there is a God, you had better do some serious reflection, or face a worse fate than mine.
_Paul Osborne

Re: A Message For William Schryver.

Post by _Paul Osborne »

William is on a reckless course and he knows he is going to crash and wipe out. He is playing it to the hilt. I predict he will become a vicious antiMormon in the end. Unfortunately my timing in predicting is a little off and it cost me $100. Once his friends mock his Cipher theory and no one of consequence supports him, that should pretty much prove his undoing. We can celebrate with cake and ice cream! Just think how good he will feel shedding off those horrible ugly garments.

Welcome Schryver, our apostate friend.

Paul O
_Simon Belmont

Re: A Message For William Schryver.

Post by _Simon Belmont »

Hey Ray,

You don't believe any of the scriptures you just cited.

You remember that, right?
_Paul Osborne

Re: A Message For William Schryver.

Post by _Paul Osborne »

Simon Belmont wrote:Hey Ray,

You don't believe any of the scriptures you just cited.

You remember that, right?


Does it matter whether Ray believes them or not? He is pointing the finger at Schryver who claims to believe them but doesn't practice them.

No harm in that.

Paul O
_Ray A

Re: A Message For William Schryver.

Post by _Ray A »

Simon Belmont wrote:Hey Ray,

You don't believe any of the scriptures you just cited.

You remember that, right?


I'm holding William accountable to what he is "supposed" to believe. So he basically has two choices: 1) Live the standards set by the scriptures, or 2) Admit that he's actually an apostate, and has no interest in living the high standards set by Jesus.

The issue here is not what I believe, but having a good understanding of both Mormonism and Christianity, and looking at whether the supposed "disciples of Christ" actually live up to the ideals.

14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.- (Matt.5)


Is William "glorifying his father in heaven"?

Are you?
_Simon Belmont

Re: A Message For William Schryver.

Post by _Simon Belmont »

Ray A wrote:
I'm holding William accountable to what he is "supposed" to believe. So he basically has two choices: 1) Live the standards set by the scriptures, or 2) Admit that he's actually an apostate, and has no interest in living the high standards set by Jesus.


Nobody's perfect, Ray.
_The Nehor
_Emeritus
Posts: 11832
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:05 am

Re: A Message For William Schryver.

Post by _The Nehor »

Ray A wrote:I'm holding William accountable to what he is "supposed" to believe. So he basically has two choices: 1) Live the standards set by the scriptures, or 2) Admit that he's actually an apostate, and has no interest in living the high standards set by Jesus.


No one but Jesus ever has. Not sure why you think Will will.

The issue here is not what I believe, but having a good understanding of both Mormonism and Christianity, and looking at whether the supposed "disciples of Christ" actually live up to the ideals.


None of them have. That's the problem with high ideals.

Is William "glorifying his father in heaven"?


Yes.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Simon Belmont

Re: A Message For William Schryver.

Post by _Simon Belmont »

The Nehor wrote:Will will.


LOL!
_Ray A

Re: A Message For William Schryver.

Post by _Ray A »

Simon Belmont wrote:
Nobody's perfect, Ray.


Even "imperfect" people do not resort to the sort of judgements, condemnations, and mockery that some apologists do. They create more and more animosity, that's all. It is better to leave things undefended, than to offer poor and contentious defences.

52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. - (Luke 9)
_Ray A

Re: A Message For William Schryver.

Post by _Ray A »

The Nehor wrote:
No one but Jesus ever has. Not sure why you think Will will.


Don't you have some "war games" to play? Blood and guts kind of thing?

Does my post, and the scriptural references therein, prick your hardened heart?
Post Reply