A Message For William Schryver.

[_truth dancer]

Hey Ray,

Let me be a prophetess for a sec. :-)

Apologists who are crude, crass, vulgar, cruel, and mean spirited believe they have every right to be so. They can't imagine that they are doing anything wrong. They will find all sorts of reasons to justify their actions. Their interpretation of the teachings of Jesus will somehow be twisted enough to allow them to rationalize their behavior. Further, they will claim that other members support, even celebrate their inappropriate behaviors or comments. Finally, they will ridicule those who find their behavior or comments inappropriate as prudish or judgmental.

So be it!

;-)

~td~

To be clear, I know many apologists who are decent, kind, and always respectful who do not find the disgusting and nastiness of other defenders funny or appropriate.

[_Kishkumen]

We're all different online. I am a nice, normal family man in real life.

You're a nice, normal person online too, if a little bit confused. And so is Will, but I happen to know for a fact that Will is fully aware that he has a problem in his online behavior. I commiserated with him concerning the cost of getting caught up in this mess. He is too far into protecting his online ego now to acknowledge the chinks in his armor.

Trevor used to be, until he went off the deep end. Ray is sort of kind, but also very resentful. Liz has a lot of patience and I don't know how she does it. I tried to make friends with KA, and found her "ShadyNasty" blog post one of the funniest things ever, but she decided not to like me.

LOL. Oh, dear, dear Simon. So how we feel about LDS apologetics is a kind of measure of us as human beings? Really? Seriously?

I was not involved in this episode, but I do know that Will is one of the nicest guys in real life. Have you read the things these people say about him on here? Angry McAngerton will just not let Will do his thing without being chastised and berated at every turn.

Oh, and you imagine that Will is a nice guy, although he acts so poorly online, while Kevin, whom you have not met, must not be a nice guy? Are you absolutely sure that you have an advanced degree in philosophy? Really?

I have absolutely no doubt that Will is basically a good person. In fact, I know he is. His online persona, however, is a pustulent boil on the face of the online LDS world. This is Will's version of porn. He can't help acting this way, and he might as well have a porn addiction for everything his apologetic habits do for the LDS Church and his family. In fact, his online habits are probably a toss up with porn. When one weighs the ratio of damage to the LDS Church and damage to his family, although the two habits would have different proportions, it is probably a wash in the end. And in either case, Will himself suffers.

Here is the problem -- you cannot ask me to do God's will, or even cite "by their fruits ye shall know them" because you don't believe any of it.

How does that work, Simon? If he does not believe them, does that mean that they no longer apply to you, although you do believe them? Do his thoughts and actions erase your responsibility to live by your own values and beliefs? This is a very confused perspective you are espousing.

[_Manfred]

...her "ShadyNasty" blog post one of the funniest things ever...

Amen.

But that was 6 months ago, and she hasn't posted since. KA, stop being lazy.

[_harmony]

Isn't this mindset similar to how terrorists and mobs thrive?

They expect their opponents to work under moral restrictments while they play under an advantageous set of rules.

That is how the apologists on MAD work. Here, the playing field is level and the rules apply to everyone. So are you saying the apologists hae a similiar mindset to terrorists and mobs? I wouldn't go that far at all.

[_Ray A]

You quoting scripture is like me quoting from the Necronomicon.

You do understand that the typed of anti-Mormons who consider themselves "true" Christians (UTLM, Ed Decker, James White, etc), are more guilty of what you propose than apologists are.

Well let me quote another one:

12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matt.7)

As Rev. Kishkumen pointed out, truth is truth, no matter who points it out, and this is what the Christian scriptures teach. Whoever flouts and fails it, be they the Tanners, Decker, White, it does not matter, no matter how many other “great works” they have done.

I’m a Universalist. While I don’t believe in literal creation stories, a prophet in the belly of a fish, and stories of three Nephites, I’m not so “darkened in mind” that I can’t see virtue where it lies, whichever religion it emanates from. I think most people do. Is it wrong for me to point this out? How do you judge Muslims? By the Book of Mormon? Or whether they follow the teachings of the Qur’an? Do you know what the Qur’an teaches? How would you be able to judge bad Muslims from good ones? I’m often told by Muslims that I must not judge them by the radicals, because “they do not understand nor follow the Qur’an”. So regardless of whether one is a believer or not, we must judge people by the standards they themselves set, the scriptures they claim to believe.

[_RockSlider]

Here is the problem -- you cannot ask me to do God's will, or even cite "by their fruits ye shall know them" because you don't believe any of it.

Wow, you took a big leap there!

What do you base this statement on?

[_Ray A]

To be clear, I know many apologists who are decent, kind, and always respectful who do not find the disgusting and nastiness of other defenders funny or appropriate.

Important observation, TD. There are some apologists I seldom, if ever "attack". If some of the General Authorities in the Church saw what passes for apologetics on MBs, I think they would have a fit.