Elder Packer wasn't talking specifically about homosexuality

[_Manfred]

He set the context by explaining the Church's position that the greatest happiness is available through a marriage of a man and a woman and then talked about threats to this relationship. He discussed pornography specifically at some length and then said,

(my transcription of his spoken comments, my emphasis added)

"We teach a moral standard of CONDUCT that will protect us from Satan's substituteS and counterfeitS for marriage. We must understand that ANY persuasion to enter into ANY relationship that is not in harmony with the principles of the gospel must be wrong. In 'The Book of Mormon,' we learn that wickedness never was happiness.

"Some suppose that they were preset and cannot overcome what they feel are inborn tendencIES [clarified to be "temptations" in the printed version] toward the impure and the unnatural. Not so. Why would our heavenly father do that? Remember, he is our father. Paul promised, 'God will not suffer that ye are tempted above what ye are able, but will with the temptation make a way to escape that ye may be able to bear it.

"You can, if you will, break the habitS and conquer the addictionS and come away from that which is not worthy of any member of the Church."

After setting his context of how to have the greatest joy, he:

* Warns specifically only against pornography

* Says that any persuasion toward ANY relationship out of harmony with the gospel is wrong. This would mean a drug dealer's or prostitute's enticements at least as well as anything else. Some relationships disharmonious with the gospel would be: addictions, adultery, alcoholism, blogging to excess, eating disorders, flirting by married people with others, gambling, many habits, homosexual activity, internet games, intimate friendships that supplant marriage confidentialities, sports to excess, vanity (primary relationship with self), and workaholicism. Note that all of these also damage the marriage relationship that Elder Packer reminded us brings the greatest joy.

* Speaks of conduct, not of attractions or desires

* Talks about substitutes, counterfeits, tendencies, habits, and addictions -- all in plural. If he were talking about homosexuality specifically, as so many have been claiming, these words would have been singular

* Immediately follows "Some suppose that they were preset and cannot overcome what they feel are inborn tendencies" phrase that was the touchstone for the current kurfuffle with Paul's identical promise that God won't let us be tempted (tried, tested) more than we can bear it, i.e. we won't have a desire greater than we can overcome the feeling to act upon it.

* Immediately follows that with his promise that we can become free of habits and addictions -- in which almost nobody includes homosexuality. The official LDS website, providentliving.org lists these as "Types of Addictions"
- Alcohol
- Drugs (both prescription and illegal)
- Tobacco
- Coffee and tea
- Pornography
- Inappropriate sexual behavior
- Gambling
- Codependency
- Disorders associated with eating
http://www.providentliving.org/content/display/0,11666,6629-1-3414-1,00.html

The LDS Church sponsors 9 Addiction Recovery Groups here in Orange County alone to help overcome all of these tendencies. I'm sure that Elder Packer is aware of the problems all of them cause.

LDS doctrine is that ALL of us have inherent proclivities to act contrary to God's will:
"For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord" (Mosiah 3:19).

So, how did his warning against ANY wrong relationships and his promise that we can overcome all habits and addictions with help from the priesthood (as he says elsewhere in this talk) become an abandonment of all other impure actions and what's claimed to be a statement solely about homosexual desire and that it is not inherent?

[_The Dude]

So how come all the homosexuals felt the spirit telling them it was about homosexuality?

Plausible deniability of the Holy Ghost is an unpardonable sin, isn't it?

[_Joseph]

How come he doesn't know the difference in a tendency that may be inborn and a temptation that one may give in to?

The fudgeman is spending way too much time thinking of sex and it is clouding his speaking.

[_Jason Bourne]

Yea he was. In that part of his talk he was. Sure he was vague with the some think they are born with unnatural tendencies. This was sort of like when they tell married people not to do unnatural or unholy sex acts even when married but don't give detail.

But really in this one it really was clear what he meant.

[_sock puppet]

manfred,

Is your point that BKP's intolerance and hate stretches beyond just homosexuals?

[_DarkHelmet]

We teach a moral standard of CONDUCT that will protect us from Satan's substituteS and counterfeitS for marriage.

Isn't it ironic that the church's marriage standards have changed much more dramatically than the rest of American society.