Too TBM

[_Lucinda]

I'm beginning to wonder if being too TBM is what lead me to want to make a swift exit when I learned Mormonism truths. I bought everything hook, line and sinker. Whenever I had questions I would revert back to answers given to me while growing up, "you need more faith, or you don't need to worry about that -- it will all work itself out in the next life." I had a conversation with an LDS friend recently who was raised hearing about Joseph Smith practicing polygamy, Book of Mormon translation with rock in hat, etc. She gave the usual "he was a human" answer but she isn't shocked by hearing facts that devastated me. And she and her family remain active LDS. This made me think--is the church going to start trickling truths in to keep people from feeling like their foundations have crumbled when they are my age and learn how it really went down? in my opinion, they better start in primary. Like what about the song "Book of Mormon stories"? Are they still singing it with little hands beating on scriptures like American Indians beating on drums? And the hand actions making feathers on the backs of their heads? And will they start having sharing times about seer stones rather than the u&t? (I remember giving a s.t. on Book of Mormon translation.) Thoughts?

[_Runtu]

Oh, yeah, that's part of it. Things I've heard from church members and family and a couple of bishops:

- You took it too seriously.

- Take what you like, and forget the rest.

- Don't worry about whether it's true or not; just focus on being a good person.

- They're just stories you choose to illuminate your life.

[_beefcalf]

I'm beginning to wonder if being too TBM is what lead me to want to make a swift exit when I learned Mormonism truths. I bought everything hook, line and sinker. Whenever I had questions I would revert back to answers given to me while growing up, "you need more faith, or you don't need to worry about that -- it will all work itself out in the next life." I had a conversation with an LDS friend recently who was raised hearing about Joseph Smith practicing polygamy, Book of Mormon translation with rock in hat, etc. She gave the usual "he was a human" answer but she isn't shocked by hearing facts that devastated me. And she and her family remain active LDS. This made me think--is the church going to start trickling truths in to keep people from feeling like their foundations have crumbled when they are my age and learn how it really went down? in my opinion, they better start in primary. Like what about the song "Book of Mormon stories"? Are they still singing it with little hands beating on scriptures like American Indians beating on drums? And the hand actions making feathers on the backs of their heads? And will they start having sharing times about seer stones rather than the u&t? (I remember giving a s.t. on Book of Mormon translation.) Thoughts?

Lucinda,

I think you make an excellent point. I believe that if I had been raised with hints here and there about the seer stones, the Nauvoo polygamy, the polyandry, Young's blood-atonement and Adam-God, that things for me would have been different. If I had been inoculated slowly to these concepts, I likely would not have had the strong reaction it sounds like you and I both had.

Part of my problem was certainly those aspects of early church history which had been hidden. But just as big a problem for me was the realization that the church ALSO considered these things a big problem, and had clearly taken steps to obscure them from the greater membership of the church.

Bottom line: Joseph Smith being a prideful, conniving philanderer was bad. Realizing that the church was willing to lie about Joseph Smith to obtain my faith was worse, and was the certainly one of the bigger nails in the coffin of my testimony.

[_Lucinda]

If I had been inoculated slowly to these concepts, I likely would not have had the strong reaction it sounds like you and I both had.

That's a great way to put it, Beefcalf. Building up a resistance to Mormonism truths.

[_Runtu]

If I had been inoculated slowly to these concepts, I likely would not have had the strong reaction it sounds like you and I both had.

That's a great way to put it, Beefcalf. Building up a resistance to Mormonism truths.

According to some apologists, ex-Mormons were "lazy and intransigent" members who never bothered to look deeply into their own religion. Then, when they found out unsavory truths, they were blindsided, not because the truths are troubling, but because they hadn't taken the time or effort required to work through them. This is, of course, just another way of blaming the church members for the church not actually being true.

Some of us don't fit that description, though. I knew about the problems for 10 or 15 years before I had my crisis of faith. I had worked through the problems, but eventually I realized that all I was doing was rationalizing things that didn't deserve to be rationalized. Then the whole house of cards fell.

[_Lucinda]

According to some apologists, ex-Mormons were "lazy and intransigent" members who never bothered to look deeply into their own religion. Then, when they found out unsavory truths, they were blindsided, not because the truths are troubling, but because they hadn't taken the time or effort required to work through them.

Crazy. I took it seriously that we weren't supposed to look at anything but scriptures and correlated materials. I was actually nervous in my mid-30's to purchase books and do my own studying. I guess that's my own fault for not thinking on my own for that long.

[_Runtu]

Crazy. I took it seriously that we weren't supposed to look at anything but scriptures and correlated materials. I was actually nervous in my mid-30's to purchase books and do my own studying. I guess that's my own fault for not thinking on my own for that long.

When I was at BYU, I stumbled across a copy of No Man Knows My History that someone had left on a study table. I was afraid to pick it up, as this was widely known to be an evil book defaming Joseph Smith.

I opened the front cover, and someone had scribbled, "I knew it! This is why I've always had doubts about Joseph Smith. Now I know why."

Someone else had crossed that out and written, "Please do not read this book! It is a horrible book filled with lies!"

I closed the cover and didn't read the book until many years later.

Me, I was sticking with the scriptures and the teachings of the prophets. At one point, I was spending 3 hours a day studying the gospel from "approved" sources. I guess I was just being lazy and intransigent. :-)

[_Inconceivable]

The truth of the matter is that the Mormon church is embarrassed of the behavior of joseph smith, brigham young and the others - profoundly embarrassed. The suits don't want members to think abhorant behavior represents the spirit of the present church.

I don't think the suits want to inocculate the members at all. It would compromise everything they wish the church stood for. I don't think you will ever hear a GA confirming that Smith had sex with a woman married to someone else.

But in order to make the church a legitimate entity, it must be founded upon trust, honor, faithfulness, honesty and all the other "godly" attributes. It must be perceived as having a consistant pattern. So they must lie. They have to lie. And that is where they will eventually lose the best of the best, like you, Lucinda, Runtu and others - the honest at heart.

1) You can't teach a deacon that drinking is evil when they find out joseph smith drank his entire life but didn't for an opperation at 10 years old.

2) You can't teach a father/husband that adultery is evil when joseph smith lived the majority of his married life as an unfaithful adulterer.

As we all know, the list goes on..

[_Fence Sitter]

There is a contradiction between the leadership of the church, which encourages faith promoting study, and the apologists, whose dismissive attitudes say you just haven't investigated the issue fully.

[_Lucinda]

Thanks, Inc. I was reminded again when reading your post, that it really was all about honesty for me. I was surprised to find, however, an article in the Ensign about Joseph and his seer stone in the hat. I wondered if that is somehow part of a slow trickle. That and approving books like "Rough Stone Rolling" to be sold at Deseret Book that give readers a different insight than what we learned from the manuals.