Chances MAD will let me back in

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_sock puppet
_Emeritus
Posts: 17063
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:52 pm

Re: Chances MAD will let me back in

Post by _sock puppet »

sock puppet wrote:Yes, it is a long and storied history of demonizing dissent. Still, my favorite episode is the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor. That was truly a watershed moment in tolerance of dissent and free speech. And it is so fun to see the lame defenses TBMs give for what is about as anti-American conduct as there is.


why me wrote:Putting the episode into context would help. Here are the saints in Nauvoo, building a successful city to live in peace after years of persecution. In Warsaw there is an antimormon press igniting mob justice and a constant threat to the Mormons of nauvoo. Nothing wrong with freedom of the press here to incite people against a specific group. I do believe that that paper just may be closed down if it existed today.

But here comes william law the former member who disagrees with Joseph Smith adding to the hatred and incitement. After years of persecution Joseph and town council with the support of the citizens of nauvoo decide to close down the press. And they did.

Afterwards Joseph attempts to make amends but to no avail. However previously, Mormon presses and homes were destroyed without a problem. No conviction there.

The hypocrisy of the event is there for all to see.

why me, there are many families of murder victims for which the murderer is never found or gets acquitted for lack of evidence, procedural irregularities in the courts, etc. Do you think it is justifiable if these victims' families go out and kill someone that had nothing to do with the first murder? That's the context, after all, why me.

Do you give the child molester a bye because the context is that he was himself as a child the victim of child abuse? Hell, no, you put him away.

Usually victims support the law more than if they had not been victimized, even if they feel the law has inadequately addressed the crime. For example, many who survive a horrific crime will themselves become prosecutors or victim's rights attorneys, to help and work WITHIN the legal system.

You keep up with the canard about the Mormon press in Missouri having been destroyed. Was that by the misuse and abuse of government power? Or was that a private group doing so? If I recall correctly, it did not involve any governmental power. That is what makes Joseph and Hyrum Smith's destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor so heinous--they abused their offices as mayor and city councilman, respectively.
_harmony
_Emeritus
Posts: 18195
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:35 am

Re: Chances MAD will let me back in

Post by _harmony »

Lucinda wrote:
Ajax wrote:What are you talking about anyway? Weren't you raised BIC like me? Have you ever lived outside of UT? Maybe that's why we're not understanding each other. I grew up being the only member in my school.
Ajax--there were just as many sexually promiscuous Mormon teenagers as non-Mormon in my high school in Utah. Horny teenagers are horny teenagers. It's up to the parents to decide how to teach a child regarding pre-marital sex or lack thereof. You're dreaming if you think Mormon kids aren't doing the same things their non-religious friends are. It's just the amount of guilt and fear that comes after that's the difference. Just my opinion.


A long time ago, I read a sociological study (I'll find it if I can) of seminary students on the East Coast. The findings were not what you'd think. Mormon teens engaged in sex at the 25% rate; since non-Mormon teens were engaging in sex at the 75% rate at that time, non Mormon social workers and such were all over the church to find out what we did so that our teens were 2/3 less sexually active. The church, on the other hand, was very upset at the 25% rate.

It's all in the perspective.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_zeezrom
_Emeritus
Posts: 11938
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:57 pm

Re: Chances MAD will let me back in

Post by _zeezrom »

ajax18 wrote:I certainly would have been sexually active if I weren't Mormon, heck even if I were just Baptist. And yes they were a lot more sexually deviant. Perhaps there are atheist young men with a peculiar set of ethics that motivated them to instant celibacy and monogamy but I haven't met any yet.

Interesting because I can be strictly honest with you that my fear of BKP talks is not what kept me from having sex with girls I associated with in high school. His talks made me feel bad about another part of my life.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_sock puppet
_Emeritus
Posts: 17063
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:52 pm

Re: Chances MAD will let me back in

Post by _sock puppet »

Would you rather that your teenage kids be celibate than guilt-ridden, some to the point of suicide like that Mormon teen in Boise, Idaho, who committed suicide due to guilt over masturbation? I'd much rather my child be sexually active (with condoms being used because I told them about them and how they could get them) than frustrated and guilt-ridden while their egos and self-esteem are being stunted in their development.
_zeezrom
_Emeritus
Posts: 11938
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:57 pm

Re: Chances MAD will let me back in

Post by _zeezrom »

sock puppet wrote:Would you rather that your teenage kids be celibate than guilt-ridden, some to the point of suicide like that Mormon teen in Boise, Idaho, who committed suicide due to guilt over masturbation? I'd much rather my child be sexually active (with condoms being used because I told them about them and how they could get them) than frustrated and guilt-ridden while their egos and self-esteem are being stunted in their development.

I want my kids be responsible and happy. I have my personal opinions about sexual activity among teens and can tell you I will never rank that up there in the category of murder for heaven's sake.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_ajax18
_Emeritus
Posts: 6914
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:56 am

Re: Chances MAD will let me back in

Post by _ajax18 »

Did you feel that way when you were a temple recommend carrier?
And when the confederates saw Jackson standing fearless as a stone wall the army of Northern Virginia took courage and drove the federal army off their land.
_zeezrom
_Emeritus
Posts: 11938
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:57 pm

Re: Chances MAD will let me back in

Post by _zeezrom »

ajax18 wrote:Did you feel that way when you were a temple recommend carrier?

Pre-marital sex was up high on the sin totem pole when I had a TR, so yes.

And many of my opinions have changed.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_Wisdom Seeker
_Emeritus
Posts: 991
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:55 am

Re: Chances MAD will let me back in

Post by _Wisdom Seeker »

zeezrom wrote:
ajax18 wrote:Did you feel that way when you were a temple recommend carrier?

Pre-marital sex was up high on the sin totem pole when I had a TR, so yes.

And many of my opinions have changed.


Not to derail here, but-
Was Bludgeon the Beefsteak ever considered very high on the totem pole of sin?

Okay back to the topic at hand, No Zee MAD will never let you back in.
_Yoda

Re: Chances MAD will let me back in

Post by _Yoda »

Zee, has MAD blocked your IP or can you at least still read the board?
_moksha
_Emeritus
Posts: 22508
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:42 pm

Re: Chances MAD will let me back in

Post by _moksha »

liz3564 wrote:Utah Mormons are a whole different breed. The Church really has more normal people out there in different states.


Tell me about it. There are times I really wanted to be normal, but was unsure my medications would work beyond the Utah borders.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
Post Reply