LDS or Nothing?

[Guest]

CeeBoo-- there should be no surprise at the fact. If I were raised in a family which taught that one must obey the Mormon god-- or else-- I would probably be an agnostic, at least. And given the amount of contact I have had with Mormonism, I have gone through dry times, too.

Now I understand why you hung around at that other board for so long-- really, agnostics who have been burned by sick religion really aren't such bad people. They are just angry at a God they never were taught about.

And yet, many heretics during the inquistion were burned by a 'sick' religion. Do you know what religion that was? Were people taught to obey the catholic god during the middle ages and dark ages...or face the consequences? And need we remember the religious wars that engulfed europe for centuries where sick religions fought and killed many wonderful people?

And many children were scared by a sick religion that allowed its priests and nuns to abuse children on a daily basis. Do you know what sick religion that was? Lets look at the recent news coming out of boston to find an answer....

Such hypocrisy is sublime but without the lofty feelings.

[Guest]

I think that for many devout people who were believing strongly in their faith, when they are disappointed in that faith, they leave that faith and have trouble believing some other religion. It doesn't feel the same for a catholic to suddenly become a lutheran or a baptist. Maybe they can find some people in the anglicans but...the traditions are still different and the former devout catholic may not find it comforting and acceptable.

Hard to find a new faith when one is disappointed in one's former faith, if one was devout in that faith.

[Guest]

I don't understand what you mean? (Imagine that)

Perhaps I just am reading too much into your lack of presence here. I refuse to go over there. I always found the monologue board to be a very unpleasant place. My bad.

I enjoy seeing you here, and felt that there was some ridicule of you over there. Your self-depreciating manner----

This is a bunch of good people. Really. They just reject Christianity because Mormonism put them into a double-bind. They, at least for now, need to reject Christianity in order to reject Mormonism.

[_moksha]

Catholics recognize any trinitarian baptism. So do Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc.

The way I heard it, Catholics accept the rites of the Eastern Church, there is some agreement on the Anglican Communion and an agreement on justification with the Lutherans. Hadn't heard about this other sweeping acceptance of baptism. The Catholic Church has had members attend the World Council of Churches as individuals but not as designated signatories to any agreements. Is there an official Vatican acceptance of these other baptisms?

[_MCB]

Catholics accept all those other Trinitarian Baptisms. No problem. The LDS Baptism, because their trinity and perception of God is so different, just doesn't cut it. I would suppose the Oneness Pentecostal baptism doesn't, either.

[_Ceeboo]

Catholics recognize any trinitarian baptism. So do Eastern Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc.

The way I heard it, Catholics accept the rites of the Eastern Church, there is some agreement on the Anglican Communion and an agreement on justification with the Lutherans. Hadn't heard about this other sweeping acceptance of baptism. The Catholic Church has had members attend the World Council of Churches as individuals but not as designated signatories to any agreements. Is there an official Vatican acceptance of these other baptisms?

Hey moksha,

The Catholic Church accepts ALL water baptisms that are performed in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Any other Catholic questions should be adressed to either the Vatican or WhyMe.

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_zeezrom]

Ceeboo,

Here is another angle. My family and I spent some time at a friends house who happens to go to the local Rock Church. This church is geared more toward young families as far as I can tell. The kids get to go to Adventure Canyon to learn applied scripture allegories using GPS games and even a bounce house. The adults walk in to the chapel and the first thing to greet you is a coffee maker. There are different classes for the adults depending on how seriously you take the Bible. There is a place for the literalist and the liberal. They told us about this and my wife and I couldn't help but look totally baffled. Amazingly, the kids had many concepts down and many scriptures memorized. They already seem to be way ahead of my kids. Then they tell us all the financials are reported to the congregation each year! How would that be, eh? I was amazed.

For a little while, they had us convinced that we should try their church out. I remember thinking, "This is great! the kids will enjoy it and finally I will be able to express my questions as I see fit without worrying about what people think of me. I can be my own person and still go to church!"

Then they start telling us about their beliefs... The wife informs us she had a choice to put a down payment on a house or donate to the church. She decided to forgo on the house payment. My smile quickly turned to a frown, eyes lost their luster. Then I ask them, how do you feel about people that aren't baptized? Can they go to heaven? She says, "Well, this is pretty sad, but it says in the Bible...." That turned me off completely.

I don't know what it is. There is this distaste for things that feel the same as the things I've grown to dislike in LDS. When I encounter them, I get turned off.

[Guest]

Once rational analysis is applied to most religions, the whole thing rapidly falls apart. For example the orthodox church with its priests in gold robes and fancy icons. To critically examine the symbolism of this faith, can lead one away from it when one compares the early church in the Bible. No icons, no fancy robes, no gold coloring etc. No kissing of icons...the list is huge. But yes, the symbolism is beautiful and electrifying. And when we look into the lutheren church we see a founder who was extemely antisemitic. Martin luther said some very nasty things about jews and he seems to be a very hapless person who invented a very strict protestant work ethic church and a very austere styled church to fit a gloomy luthern perspective.

I disagree. For example, I have read many conversion stories of people who have studied themselves into the catholic church. A common theme in those stories is often the rationality and consistency of the faith and the historical evidence for the catholic position. This seems to be far less common in modern conversions to the lds church. If anything, it seems to be that people study themselves out of the lds church. There is a reason why the brethern advise to 'leave the mysteries alone'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pe ... atholicism

[_why me]

Then I ask them, how do you feel about people that aren't baptized? Can they go to heaven? She says, "Well, this is pretty sad, but it says in the Bible...." That turned me off completely.

I don't know what it is. There is this distaste for things that feel the same as the things I've grown to dislike in LDS. When I encounter them, I get turned off.

I don't think that the lds church has the same belief system as this church. I would assume that this church believes that such people will go to hell. How is that lds teaching. If the lds have a belief that teaching the gospel will be going on in the spirit world and if people have free agency there, it seems that this is rather nice and no one to my understanding will be heading to hell.

[_why me]

I disagree. For example, I have read many conversion stories of people who have studied themselves into the catholic church. A common theme in those stories is often the rationality and consistency of the faith and the historical evidence for the catholic position. This seems to be far less common in modern conversions to the lds church. If anything, it seems to be that people study themselves out of the lds church.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pe ... atholicism

And there is more an acceptance to the dark side of catholic and orthodox history. But with Mormonism, there is this crazy understanding that all must be perfect and spotless or else it is not a true religion. And that makes the difference. The lds critics are rather hypocritical in their understanding. Our own MCB is a good case in point. The internet makes it seem that the lds church for it to be true must have a perfect history with perfect human beings doing perfect things.

I know of no other religion that gets such treatment. And so, in the catholic faith or orthodox, the sins of the past and the imperfection of its leaders are much more acceptable to people.

How often on this board have former lds claimed: I looked into the church's history and that led me out of the lds church.

If we all would look into the history of religion, we would all leave all faiths since all faiths have an imperfect history. But...it is only the lds church that should have such a perfect history with perfect leaders who have never misspoke and done a misdeed.