Evidences...what does the word mean to you

[_stemelbow]

DJ,

The subject for me is merely the Title of the thread. It is not meant to define the thread, necessarily. That's why I included text in the OP. Let us move on.

Any comments about my comments about Sock Puppets comments regarding the 3 witnesses testimony?

love ya tons,
stem

[_Darth J]

DJ,

The subject for me is merely the Title of the thread. It is not meant to define the thread, necessarily. That's why I included text in the OP. Let us move on.

Any comments about my comments about Sock Puppets comments regarding the 3 witnesses testimony?

love ya tons,
stem

I remember someone once said, "So wish to run from the burden that you have taken upon yourself by startin this thread huh? Such is game is silly. If you wish to stick to your guns and prove your points, then its up to you. Its certainly not up to me to do your homework. Did you have a pretty boy/girl that you flirted with to do your homework for you or sumpin?"

stemelbow:

How exactly would the Eight Witnesses have determined whether Joseph Smith's story about what the plates were and where he got them was true?

[_Kishkumen]

I think if we did examine the evidence, you're opinion wouldn't hold on its own. I think if we did there is room to believe, and there is room for doubts. But I don't think your subjective opinion holds much water on its own. Too bad. I was hoping we could engage on this issue.

I am happy to examine the evidence. In fact, I have examined the evidence, and I am happy to do so again. If you decide you don't want to engage on the issue, that is your choice. Don't pretend that it was mine.

[_stemelbow]

How exactly would the Eight Witnesses have determined whether Joseph Smith's story about what the plates were and where he got them was true?

I've answered that. It helps to confirm that Joseph Smith' story of having gold colored plates is true. I did not say it confirmed what the plates were and where he got them.

love ya tons,
stem

[_stemelbow]

I am happy to examine the evidence. In fact, I have examined the evidence, and I am happy to do so again. If you decide you don't want to engage on the issue, that is your choice. Don't pretend that it was mine.

Well if you're willing then go ahead and participate. no big deal if you choose not to.

love ya tons,
stem

[_Kishkumen]

So the testimony of the 3, testifying that the engravings were ancient, and that the plates are the source for the translation that became the Book of Mormon, is not "credible" evidence for those things?

Exactly. It is not credible evidence for those things, because the witnesses really had no way of evaluating them properly.

[_Tchild]

How exactly would the Eight Witnesses have determined whether Joseph Smith's story about what the plates were and where he got them was true?

An argument apologists have argued, and perhaps one that Stem may want to continue: Joseph Smith didn't have access to materials sufficient to create and pass off a prop with turning pages, sheets made of copper (or some other pricey metal that would pass as gold) and inscriptions believable enough to look like ancient script. Thus, with materials unavailable to Joseph Smith to fabricate a sufficiently believable prop, one can infer that the plates that the 8 witnessed, must have come from some other place other than the workmanship capable by Joseph Smith or others in a rough and tumble frontier environ.

Except....for that pesky cooper shop in J.S.'s backyard.

[Guest]

So the testimony of the 3, testifying that the engravings were ancient, and that the plates are the source for the translation that became the Book of Mormon, is not "credible" evidence for those things?

Exactly. It is not credible evidence for those things, because the witnesses really had no way of evaluating them properly.

+1
+1
+1

ETA: Oh but for the Mormons, even the smart ones, it does not matter! *childish voice effect* "becwaz i pwayed about it and jebus towd me its twooooo!"

[_Kishkumen]

P.J. O'Rourke said in one of his books that there are some kinds of stupid that can't be faked. The above post is the kind of thing he was talking about.

Do I hear the confused strains of jskains in the air?

[_Darth J]

How exactly would the Eight Witnesses have determined whether Joseph Smith's story about what the plates were and where he got them was true?

I've answered that. It helps to confirm that Joseph Smith' story of having gold colored plates is true. I did not say it confirmed what the plates were and where he got them.

love ya tons,
stem

Then the testimony of the Eight Witnesses is not evidence of the authenticity of the Book of Mormon, is it?

Since, you know, authenticity of the Book of Mormon = what the plates were and where Joseph Smith got them.