Darth J wrote: And based on the current state of the evidence, we can therefore conclude that the Book of Mormon does not present a true story, as there is no evidence to show that a thousand-year civilization of Hebrews who practiced Christianity and had steel swords, horses, and chariots existed in the pre-Columbian Americas.
Right?
Wrong? Obviously.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-
Okay.
Where might I find the evidence that the Nephites or the Jaredites ever existed?
13: Close-mindedly assume that your fundamentalist and over-simplistic caricatures are the plain meaning of what your opponent has said.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-
So this:
Darth J wrote: The stunning, revolutionary insight into Christianity that will allow us to think outside the box is that being nice to people is more important than being married to any particular denominational dogma.
is a straw man of this:
wenglund wrote: One day while sitting on my porch in lower Silver Shadows, Provo, and contemplating all that I had learned, I began to wonder what proportion of the worlds' population, or even the LDS population, knew what I had come to know of the Godhead.
Whether right or wrong, I figured maybe a handful at best.
Anyway, as I came to that conclusion (not for reasons of arrogance as much as it was gratitude for the blessing), I began to see (whether by vision or in reality, I wasn't sure) an elderly couple, evidently humble farmers by the set of their clothes, who had driven up to the duplex of a struggling single mother in my Ward, gotten out of their car and stealthly dropped off a bundle of food, leaving it on the door step, and the two quitely returned to their car and drove back home.
This simple act of kindness struck me with great force, and caused me to realize that with all my learning, that couple likely had more understanding of God and Christ in their little finger than I had throughout my whole body and soul.
I mention this here as an example of how, in light of this seminal experience, the gospel caused me to think differently, even about the gospel. It caused me to think outside the "truth" and "knowledge" box, and to realize that the gospel wasn't so much about "truth" and "knolwedge", but rather about love. And, if I wanted to become like the Father and Son, I needed to spend far less time in the library learning about them, and far more time following in their path and being more like them. I needed to think less and do more.
Is it hard being constantly misunderstood by everyone you encounter, Wade? Is it sad to be the emo kid of internet Mormonism?
1. Moroni's promise is not a valid basis for us to determine whether an ancient civilization existed or not.
2. There is no archaeological evidence known to show that the Nephites or the Jaredites ever existed.
So the basis for believing that the Nephites or the Jaredites were ever part of the real world would be...............
Non-archeological evidence examined utilizing a methodology other than Moroni's promise. Obviously.
At some point I hope you realize that the intent of the Book of Mormon and Moroni's promise isn't to establish the existence of ancient civilizations (Nephite, or Jaredite, or otherwise).
Thanks, -Wade Englund-
"Why should I care about being consistent?" --Mister Scratch (MD, '08)
1. Moroni's promise is not a valid basis for us to determine whether an ancient civilization existed or not.
2. There is no archaeological evidence known to show that the Nephites or the Jaredites ever existed.
So the basis for believing that the Nephites or the Jaredites were ever part of the real world would be...............
Non-archeological evidence examined utilizing a methodology other than Moroni's promise. Obviously.
At some point I hope you realize that the intent of the Book of Mormon and Moroni's promise isn't to establish the existence of ancient civilizations (Nephite, or Jaredite, or otherwise).
Thanks, -Wade Englund-
The Book of Mormon cannot be another testament of Jesus Christ unless it is a true story. If it is simply inspired fiction, then it testifies of nothing because it never really happened. Therefore, establishing the existence of the Nephites and the Jaredites is inherent in the Book of Mormon purporting to be, per the Church's after-the-fact subtitle, "Another Testament of Jesus Christ."
So what would be an example of non-archaeological evidence that is not based on Moroni's promise?
wenglund wrote:Non-archeological evidence examined utilizing a methodology other than Moroni's promise. Obviously.
Whhhhhhhhhaaaat?????
C'mon, Maaaaaaan.
V/R Dr. Cam
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
1. Moroni's promise is not a valid basis for us to determine whether an ancient civilization existed or not.
2. There is no archaeological evidence known to show that the Nephites or the Jaredites ever existed.
So the basis for believing that the Nephites or the Jaredites were ever part of the real world would be...............
Non-archeological evidence examined utilizing a methodology other than Moroni's promise. Obviously.
At some point I hope you realize that the intent of the Book of Mormon and Moroni's promise isn't to establish the existence of ancient civilizations (Nephite, or Jaredite, or otherwise).
Thanks, -Wade Englund-
Was the intent of the Book of Mormon to lie, claiming there were these ancient civilizations (Nephite, or Jaredite, or otherwise) when it was known all along they did not exist?
Was the intent of the Book of Mormon to be 'another witness to Jesus Christ'? Who would be bearing that other witness if there were no Nephites?
How come COTPOTCOJCOLDS does not tout JSJr's claimed visions as third witnesses to Jesus Christ?
