Women can not be Sons of Perdition

[_moksha]

Women can not be Sons of Perdition. That is from a statement made on another forum. Is this whimsical in that they would have to be daughters of perdition, or is it a reprieve so there will be an extra multitude of available wives in the hereafter?

[_bcspace]

I think the only way for doctrinal statements that women can't be sop's to be consistent is for the context to be in this life; mortality. And that because the doctrine is also that the one third of those who were cast out are also sop's. The assumption here is that those one third were both men and women and not men only which would likely create a huge disparity in the ratio of males to females.

Since plural marriage is only in the context of the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom where there will be only a relatively few people, whatever the overall male to female ratio happens to be is quite meaningless.

[_Nightlion]

I think the only way for doctrinal statements that women can't be sop's to be consistent is for the context to be in this life; mortality. And that because the doctrine is also that the one third of those who were cast out are also sop's. The assumption here is that those one third were both men and women and not men only which would likely create a huge disparity in the ratio of males to females.

Since plural marriage is only in the context of the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom where there will be only a relatively few people, whatever the overall male to female ratio happens to be is quite meaningless.

The one third hosts that rebelled BEFORE they could be added upon with a seed body by way of the continuation of the seeds (out of the world or spiritual seed bodies) by exalted parents were as yet and forever ONLY organized intelligence that has no gender differentiation. Sexual differentiation is AFTER being born by way of seeds which is the combination of male and female.

Anyone who partakes of the power of Christ revealed unto them by the Father and altogether turns against Christ to deny him, putting Christ to open shame, blasphemes against the Holy Ghost and will have no forgiveness. Male/Female.

There are so few Sons of Perdition from this life that it is possible no women WILL sin to this degree and that may be foreknown and so there would be no reason to include that option.

[_Inconceivable]

The one third hosts that rebelled BEFORE they could be added upon with a seed body by way of the continuation of the seeds (out of the world or spiritual seed bodies) by exalted parents were as yet and forever ONLY organized intelligence that has no gender differentiation. Sexual differentiation is AFTER being born by way of seeds which is the combination of male and female.

So, I didn't know if I were a boy or a girl until AFTER birth, even though my parents knew when they caught my added attachment on the ultrasound? That's nuts (pardon the pun).

There are so few Sons of Perdition from this life that it is possible no women WILL sin to this degree and that may be foreknown and so there would be no reason to include that option.

Nightlion, who in God's name told you this?

So I'm trying to wrap this around my head:

Once an intelligence is born and discovers "it" is a woman, does "it" instinctively become less prone to blasphemy against the holy "it" ghost (being as yet unborn as well) than do the "it's" counterpart "its" that are born men?

Do tell.

So the holy ghost is genderless? And Jesus had no spiritual genitalia before birth?

Aren't we informed in the temple that all things were created spiritual before being created physical?

What is genitalia if it doesn't exist spiritually?

[_LDSToronto]

Women can not be Sons of Perdition. That is from a statement made on another forum. Is this whimsical in that they would have to be daughters of perdition, or is it a reprieve so there will be an extra multitude of available wives in the hereafter?

It's an interesting perspective I've never considered. Suspending disbelief in LDS theology, amongst the third that rebelled, some would have to be engendered female.

In mortality, the question becomes more interesting. Traditionally, I've always been told that only those who have received a perfect witness of Jesus Christ (whatever that means, I'm not sure) can become a son of perdition, as they'd have to deny that witness and then actively promote apostasy. The only people who qualify are men who are ordained apostles, and perhaps, seventies (so I'm told, I've never really studied it out).

If this is the case, it follows no woman could ever become a son of perdition.

The notion that Jesus Christ or God could appear to a woman is entirely plausible; gender has never been linked to divine appearances. I know of no stories that state that either have appeared to women, and that doesn't mean that it hasn't happened. It just seems that the LDS folklore prominently features men who receive divine visions and visitations.

Now, if Jesus Christ or God did visit a woman, it follows that woman could, at some point in the future, deny their existence and lead others to apostasy. LDS theology would suggest that woman would then become a son of perdition (or daughter?).

That's my analysis of the scenario. Whether it fits within the LDS theological framework is another story.

H.

[_Buffalo]

Once you're dead, you're dead. The dead aren't suffering, no matter how many religious sadists wish it were so.

[_zeezrom]

...The only people who qualify are men who are ordained apostles, and perhaps, seventies (so I'm told, I've never really studied it out).

I think the consensus is that prophets and apostles are just as close to the divine as everyone else. They need to rely on the feelings they receive from the Spirit for guidance. If that is truly the case, then I would be well within the sop zone because I at one point received a feeling that confirmed the truth of the Book of Mormon yet deny it as false today... and I drank a polygamy porter last night, which makes me all the more damned.

[_LDSToronto]

...The only people who qualify are men who are ordained apostles, and perhaps, seventies (so I'm told, I've never really studied it out).

I think the consensus is that prophets and apostles are just as close to the divine as everyone else. They need to rely on the feelings they receive from the Spirit for guidance. If that is truly the case, then I would be well within the sop zone because I at one point received a feeling that confirmed the truth of the Book of Mormon yet deny it as false today... and I drank a polygamy porter last night, which makes me all the more damned.

I think I am coming to the same conclusion, Z, with respect to the revelatory scope of prophets and apostles. My commentary was made to comply with the framework of LDS theology, as much as possible, to see if there was any structural weakness.

H.

[_harmony]

It all hinges on what is defined as "apostacy".

[_LDSToronto]

It all hinges on what is defined as "apostacy".

Actually, I think it all hinges on whether women can receive the necessary special witness of Jesus Christ the same way a man could.

H.