George Miller wrote:Thews- You missed the point. I know Mike VERY well. Mike is a non-believer and does not hold to the truth claims of Mormonism. Mike's arguments don't paint Mormonism as true. Mike's argument that the symbols on Joseph Smith's cane are Christian is a historical reality; and irrelevant to Mormonisms truth claims. A cross IS a Christian symbol and the cane in fact contains a cross. The cane is in fact modeled dually on the rod of Moses and the rod of Aaron, and is thus it is Christian as most Christians accept the Old Testament.
I disagree outright with your assertion that Joseph Smith's cane is Christian in any way shape or form. From Mike's blog...
http://culturalmormoncafeteria.blogspot ... ature.htmlHistorian D. Michael Quinn, in his ground breaking book Early Mormonism and the Magic World View, argues that this symbolism on the cane reveals Joseph Smith’s belief and involvement in astrology and talismanic magic. Quinn brings his reader’s attention to an “x” on the crown found directly above the shield, and says that although some may think this is Saint Andrew’s cross, there are no other Christian symbols on the cane—unless you interpret the serpent as a symbol of the devil (which he thinks unlikely)—and so it is more probable that the “x” is instead the magic sigil of Jupiter.[1]
This is where is gets weird...
Another cross—one which seems to have been overlooked by all scholars thus far—is also found on Smith’s serpent cane: a large inverted cross fills the shield.
This almost certainly is the cross of Peter; an intriguing addition to the symbolic context of the cane, testifying further (it seems) of Joseph Smith’s ecclesiastical authority. The serpent-rod of Aaron and the “x” on the crown speak to the idea that Smith was a great high priest after the order of Aaron, and the inverted cross, a testimonial that Smith had also received priesthood keys from Peter in order to properly preside over Christ’s Church.
So George, since you are a Mason and a Mormon, I see how you come to the conclusion that Mike's argument is correct in its assumptions; I'll respectfully disagree. Talsimanic magic is of the occult and not Christian... would you agree?
George Miller wrote:I don't favor Mike's arguments because I am both a Mormon and a Mason, I favor his arguments because they are logically consistent and historically accurate. Your perception of Mike as upholding Mormonism's truth claims is simply inaccurate. Mike is just an honest historian who tries to act without bias as much as possible.
Again I'll disagree. An answer to an anonymous poster (it wasn't me)...
Anonymous,
We agree that the cane has relevance to both freemasonry and folk-magic. But you also assert that it has "Nothing to do with Jesus Christ". Really? What makes you say that? Didn't you read my evidence to the contrary? By all means, if you find my argument weak, provide a rebuttal of some sort. If you have counter-evidence to refute my position, please present it to me. Unsupported denials won't convince me of my error. I hope you understand.
Best regards,
Mike
In a nutshell George, you are biased... how can you
not be? If you
agree with Mike's argument, as a Mason and Mormon, then your bias would dictate that somehow concocting taslimanic magic (like the Jupiter talisman) as somehow Christian is understandable. I get your stance... I don't get Mike's stance. Mike believes Joseph Smith was delusional to the point
he believed he could translate things. The Book of Abraham, Kinderhook plates and Greek Psalter don't bode well for this claim, and making an inverted cross Christian defies logic in my opinion.
2 Tim 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine.
2 Tim 4:4 They will turn their ears away from the truth & turn aside to myths