Would I Post Here if I Were Still a Believer?

[_honorentheos]

As bleiever I post here for a number of reasons. To learn and explore, but, I must confess, the main reason why I come here, read and post is that I really am eager to learn about other people and what's driving them. I really hope I can learn from people here. With that said, I feel quite comfortable in my faith, overall, but I also am quite open to being wrong. In this I'm exploring the liberal attitudes regarding my faith, I suppose. I'm more and more feeling like I'm embracing a more fluid, dynamic view of my faith. I get excited thinking on the matter.

stem, for what it's worth, I admire your willingness to stick around and converse with people. I am not sure I would have considered this a few months ago, but I see you in a different light now and appreciate that you have generally shown a certain level of composure and openness that is remarkable, considering.

[_beastie]

I've always thought I wouldn't post here as a believer. When you're grappling with troubling issues as a believer, it's easy to feel overwhelmed and perhaps sensitive on the subject. Also, one's identity is normally quite enmeshed with Mormonism, so it can feel personal.

So, yes, I think for more meaningful interactions to take place more moderation would have to occur - but it does in the Celestial Kingdom. I didn't follow your sock puppet so don't know if you tried your experiment there.

Having said that, even the most carefully moderated board will still result in hurt feelings and anger, just due to the subject itself. That just can't be avoided. It's why people avoid the topic of religion and politics in polite company. ;)

[_truth dancer]

My observation is that generally posters here get what they give; not always but most often.

Believers who post with decency and courtesy are responded in kind, similarly those mean-spirited, name calling believers who post here get the same in return.

Having said this, personally, I would like the board to be a more comfortable place for believers to hang. It is true, while we welcome everyone, many believers do not feel valued here.

I for one am going to work on being a more pleasant hostess! (smile)

~td~

[_Ceeboo]

Not only would I post here if I were a believer, I do post here and I am a believer.


A waaay cool and most humbling experience.

A debt of gratitude to the many who have graciously welcomed me here, and have taken the time to share their perspectives/opinions with me. :)

Peace,
Ceeboo

[_bcspace]

I don't seem to be losing my soul posting here. Is it happening slowly and carefully?
lol

When will I be able to tell that I am a full blown apostate? What opinions of mine have been changed for the worse (relative to the LDS Church)?

[_sock puppet]

I don't seem to be losing my soul posting here. Is it happening slowly and carefully?
lol

When will I be able to tell that I am a full blown apostate? What opinions of mine have been changed for the worse (relative to the LDS Church)?

When Will Schryver tells you that you are an apostate.

Apostasy is something one does not realize about himself until well after it is fait accompli.

[_bcspace]

When Will Schryver tells you that you are an apostate.

I think it will be when I join the Democratic Party.

[_asbestosman]

So then honorentheos, I take it that your actual thoughts about my post in Sockpuppet's thread are not at all what was posted here. I'm curious about what you really think. Is it accurate for me to say that you think my response to SP was full of crap?

When Will Schryver tells you that you are an apostate.

I think it will be when I join the Democratic Party.

I think that's one of the signs of the apocalypse.

Having said this, personally, I would like the board to be a more comfortable place for believers to hang. It is true, while we welcome everyone, many believers do not feel valued here.

I agree with that. I wish more believers felt comfortable here. That said, I do appreciate frank criticism and discussion. The problem with that is not everyone likes frankness. What do I want more--frankness or more believers? I think it's possible to be frank without delving into the nastiness I often see here. However, as Beastie mentioned, even the subject itself can result in hurt feelings regardless of moderation. My favorite days were some of the earlier years on the old Fairboards. However, I also understand that many believers found that environment was still too hostile.

[_honorentheos]

I don't seem to be losing my soul posting here. Is it happening slowly and carefully?
lol

When will I be able to tell that I am a full blown apostate? What opinions of mine have been changed for the worse (relative to the LDS Church)?

Funny, it took me a moment to remember that I had quoted the synoptic scripture about "what profit it a man?" in this thread, so your response seemed to be a bit out of right field at first.

I'd like to discuss this kind of question more, but perhaps in the celestial forum. I started a thread a month back about the mystery of godliness, BC. In it, I revisited what I saw as the purpose and methods of the gospel that led to exaltation.

When I think of the scriptures I quoted, my thinking reflects the thought-process reflected in that thread. So, to my mind, if the purpose of the gospel is to help a person become more like Christ and "think what God thinks, and feel what God feels", then to lose one's soul may be considered a back-sliding from this process.

I don't think the idea of losing one's soul requires a narrow or simple definition as you seem to imply. As a believer I would have suggested that Christ's description of the goats and sheep does not describe two groups divided along lines of belief in Christ vs. disbelief in Christ. Instead, the description seems to be more of a critique on how one treated those who shared their journey through life.

It's a sentiment that I still believe, though without the religious overtones. So the question is valid to me - what does it profit a man to contend in order to win the world, let a lone a meaningless discussion on a thread on a minor message board on the internet in an insignificant point in space-time? especially if to do so one has to choose to quiet the better angels of his soul?

As noted, I'd prefer to continue this discussion in the celestial forum as I am genuinely interested in your thoughts on the purpose of the gospel and think it will be a better discussion in that setting. But it's your choice.

[_honorentheos]

So then honorentheos, I take it that your actual thoughts about my post in Sockpuppet's thread are not at all what was posted here. I'm curious about what you really think. Is it accurate for me to say that you think my response to SP was full of crap?

No, absman, I thought your point was valid. I think that a person's shifting from a state of belief in the LDS church to one of disbelief is not so easily bottled up and sold. Everyone is unique I think. That said, I think that what SP described is accurate for many people - it's another way of saying someone would keep putting things on the shelf until the shelf breaks. For me, anyway, the FARMS review of "In Sacred Loneliness" caused me to take a step back and re-examine things I had previously felt were answered well enough for now and we'd get better answers some time in the future. But that's just me.

What I said after, including the Harold B. Lee quote which I had come to my mind while reading the thread, is not far off from my true feelings. While we don't grapple with it often, I think that none of us treat our worldviews purely scientifically, without emotion. If we did so and were then as critical of it's flaws as we often are towards other's views or our previous views where we have managed to distance ourselves I think the result would be a form of nihilism.

We don't think about it too often because as humans we tend to be pretty self-impressed. But just as other animals lack either physical sense gathering abilities or cognitive abilities to take in inputs and accurately analyze the data, we are the product of biological constraints and our worldviews all have flaws that, when challenged, do not dissolve into easy answers.

So in effect, I said what I myself am doing from a non-Mormon view: I'm looking for the greater good, trying to see the world as I think it should be, and then cultivating the small fields I have to tend.

Oh, and any conversation that includes IQ and poorly aligned assumptions about apparent correlated data requires some tongue-in-cheek thinking to begin with, in my opinion. What I said about SP's studies I really meant. I think it's bogus. And EA is one of the best examples of how truly intelligent people approach questions such as that. So I'd say most if not all of what was said by 1 Iron in that thread was very close to my true opinions. I just tried to use Mormon-styled vocabulary and scripture to make my points.

Having said this, personally, I would like the board to be a more comfortable place for believers to hang. It is true, while we welcome everyone, many believers do not feel valued here.

I agree with that. I wish more believers felt comfortable here. That said, I do appreciate frank criticism and discussion. The problem with that is not everyone likes frankness. What do I want more--frankness or more believers? I think it's possible to be frank without delving into the nastiness I often see here. However, as Beastie mentioned, even the subject itself can result in hurt feelings regardless of moderation. My favorite days were some of the earlier years on the old Fairboards. However, I also understand that many believers found that environment was still too hostile.

Amen to what both of you said. It's tough to balance the desire for more inclusive conversation and a free environment. I like what TD had to say about being a more gracious host. Good thoughts and they have given me something to mull over.