Animal souls.

[_Quasimodo]

I killed a rat the other day. To be more accurate, the trap I set killed it. I still take responsibly.

It became obvious from the droppings that a rat had taken up housekeeping in my garage. I don't like killing anything these days, but I couldn't allow a rat to live there (they can do so much damage and they do tend to multiply). If it had stayed outside of my house I would have been very happy to leave it alone.

I set a few of the old, standard rat traps out (baited with bacon) and the next morning I found one dead rat.

The bar of the trap was squarely over it's neck, so it must have died nearly instantly. I was happy that it didn't suffer. After a quick web search I discovered that it was a roof rat (black rat).

As I disposed of the poor little thing in the trash can I wondered if it had a soul. Did it survive it's death?

I've always wondered that if I have a soul that survives death, why wouldn't animals have one too?

I've had a lot of animal friends in my life. Dogs, cats, horses and even my neighbor's cow when I was a kid. They all had their own personalities and most had a distinct sense of humor.

The question is, do animals have souls and do they survive death?

[_bcspace]

Rats are soulless.

[_Quasimodo]

Rats are soulless.

How do you know?

Rats in a laboratory can learn quite a bit. Respond to simple commands. Reason to some degree (especially if food is involved).

What constitutes a soul?

[_zeezrom]

Quas,

I wondered the exact same thing this afternoon! My son found a limping bird in the backyard and started pestering it and holding it. We tried to keep him away from the poor animal but he eluded us very skillfully.

The bird ended up dead after dinner. I walked up to the little body wondering why it doesn't bother us to see these little dead animals like it does to see dead people (not including loved ones, which is a whole different story). I remember believing at one time that all animals have spirits. Early church leaders taught that even vegetables have spirits!

I also remember wondering if spirits are what differentiate people from lower animals. This, I think, is why human evolution used to bother me.

Zee

[_Quasimodo]

Quas,

The bird ended up dead after dinner. I walked up to the little body wondering why it doesn't bother us to see these little dead animals like it does to see dead people (not including loved ones, which is a whole different story). I remember believing at one time that all animals have spirits. Early church leaders taught that even vegetables have spirits!

I've attended more than a few autopsies. You do get beyond an emotional reaction after a while. The first one was a little disturbing, but there was a palpable feeling that the person that was once in that body was truly gone. Whether gone to a better place or just no longer existing, I still don't know.

I also remember wondering if spirits are what differentiate people from lower animals. This, I think, is why human evolution used to bother me.

That's my puzzle, too, I guess. My dogs are not my pets. They are my friends in a very real way. They play with me, joke with me and try to manipulate me whenever they think they can get away with it (which is often).

I'm not really sure what a soul is, but if there is such a thing, they MUST have one. I'm not sure how this fits into everyone's cosmology, but maybe that's why I asked the question.
Zee

[_hatersinmyward]

i've been around dogs who are loyal to the 'human alpha in the area.' one dog in particular did not like liars or jive people and would stand by the most pure leader. if you are treating somebody bad or if you hurt someones feelings animals will let you know.

if you let an animal help you they will help you.

[_Buffalo]

Rats are soulless.

Just like every other organism.

[_Quasimodo]

Rats are soulless.

Just like every other organism.

I can accept that much better than the idea that people do have a soul and nothing else does.

[_Quasimodo]

i've been around dogs who are loyal to the 'human alpha in the area.' one dog in particular did not like liars or jive people and would stand by the most pure leader. if you are treating somebody bad or if you hurt someones feelings animals will let you know.

if you let an animal help you they will help you.

I'm always a little suspicious of people that don't like dogs. I'm very suspicious of people that dogs don't like.

[_Patriarchal gripe]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the G15 get more letters and questions regarding this topic than any other doctrinal or policy issue. I can picture thousands of little old ladies filling mailbags wanting to know what happens to their dear Fifi after death because the dogs sealing ordinances haven't been performed.

This much be the #1 reason that the prophets sent out the letter last year saying don't bother us with your inane questions. Go to your bishop or stake pres.