The miracle of forgiveness review from a Christian

[_ezravan]

I put up a new post on my blog, a review of the book the miracle of forgiveness, http://www.mormonglennbeck.com/mormon-teachings/miracle-forgiveness/ I'd love to know what a flesh and blood Mormon thinks of this book. How was it received by you? Effected you etc.. I obviously have my bias... after reading it, really wondered how Mormons deal with it.

Excuse the spelling, I just noticed a few things on the blog.

[_The Nehor]

What a splendid imagination you have.

[_jon]

Has any book pertaining to Gosepl principles etc written by Prophets and Apostles ever stood the test of time? There may be but I can't think of one.

Miracle of Forgiveness - nope
Mormon Doctrine - hell no, don't even mention it
Journal of Discourses - ehrm that one's a little embarrassing

I'm not sure what this indicates but it can't be a good sign from a Church that worships an unchanging God. That is the same today as yesterday and tomorrow.

In fact Mormons can't even claim that their unique scripture hasn't changed over the years.

[_Jason Bourne]

I put up a new post on my blog, a review of the book the miracle of forgiveness, http://www.mormonglennbeck.com/mormon-teachings/miracle-forgiveness/ I'd love to know what a flesh and blood Mormon thinks of this book. How was it received by you? Effected you etc.. I obviously have my bias... after reading it, really wondered how Mormons deal with it.

Excuse the spelling, I just noticed a few things on the blog.

While I do not agree with all you wrote on your blog I will tell you what I think of this book. Keep in mind I am what many of us term a NOM (new order Mormon) type, which means I am more liberal and less literal and in fact to not think the Mormon Church is the only true church. Many of us doubt some or much of what Joseph Smith claimed and so on.

However until maybe three to five years ago I was a literal true believing down the line Latter-day Saint.

As a full believing latter day saint I did not like most the book. When I read it as a young missionary I felt horrible and hopeless. I was a teen a served my mission when Spencer Kimball was the LDS prophet. So his words in this book likely had even more impact. I wondered if I would ever have any hope of being in the celestial kingdom given that I had done lots wrong and continued to do lots of wrong things. The book also colored how I looked at the world at other humans. Even today I have trouble I think shaking off much of what was ingrained in e as a youth that came from this book and other similar teachings in other venues from Kimball and other LDS leaders. But of course my dislike of the book I viewed as my flaw and weakness.

Through my twenties and early thirties I strived to perfect myself. I was often filled with self loathing and hatred and felt like a dismal failure for all weaknessed I had had ans still had. I suffered from some depression that while likely was not totally related to the teachings from Kimball and others they certainly exacerbated it.

Then I started really reading scripture, including LDS scripture, especially the Book of Mormon and New Testament and I realized that even in LDS canon there was this thing called grace and faith in Jesus and justification. I formed an idea that perfection was obtainable only through Christ and His forgiveness and if I had faith in him I was justified and that the rest was more the sanctification thing and everyone would be on their on very different journey on that path. All would stumble and sin along the way and improve and such. But that did no save them. Their perfect partner Jesus did. Otherwise if someone needed 75 years to do all that was needed to perfect themselves and they dies at 40 they were in trouble. I fugured God would not work that way. During this time I picked up a book by an LDS religion professor from BYU. His name is Stephen Robinson and the book was Believing Christ. Well it put in to a more succinct presentation all I had been discovering in scripture. I decided that too many LDS leaders had been much too works oriented and I saw that some were moving more to grace, justification and then sanctification.

During this time I was also called to be and LDS bishop. So I made it my goal at least during my time and in my little ward to focus on grace, mercy and justification. I refused to use the book Miracle of Forgiveness when I worked with persons that were struggling with sin and error in their life. I could share more on this but I think the members I worked with received this message with a lot of joy. I used a talk where i asked "If you were to die tomorrow would you be inherit the celestial kingdom?" And then I showed with the Book of Mormon and even the D&C as well as the New Testament why it was likely that most could say yes.

Now that I have moved away from being a literal TBM type I will tell you how I feel about the book. I despise it. I loathe it. I think it is a hideous book. It should be names :" Repent all ye heathens!" I think the book has caused a lot of heart ache and unnecessary shame and guilt. The formula Kimball outlines it really an impossible formula and really does take away the Good News of the gospel. And that is what I used to say..."The Gospel is good news not bad news!"

So yea I am a bit angry and bitter about this book. I think I am letting most that go these days. I am sure there are other LDS persons who love the book and maybe some are not here. Some will tell you I am a horrible apostate on my way out. Some will say the book is not doctrine but whatever. It was written by a man who was an apostle at the time then Church president. It was printed over and over. Deseret Book still carries it and in fact I just put a Deseret Book app on my Ipad and this book is one of about a dozen that downloaded with the App for free. It was quoted and used by bishops and mission presidents and so on. As noted it was long one of a few books approved for use in study by LDS missionaries.

So there you have my view on this awful book.

[_Buffalo]

The Miracle of Forgiveness is possibly the worst example of psychological abuse and outright nuttery ever put in print.

[_The Nehor]

The Miracle of Forgiveness is possibly the worst example of psychological abuse and outright nuttery ever put in print.

You don't read much do you?

[Guest]

While I do not agree with all you wrote on your blog I will tell you what I think of this book. Keep in mind I am what many of us term a NOM (new order Mormon) type, which means I am more liberal and less literal and in fact to not think the Mormon Church is the only true church. Many of us doubt some or much of what Joseph Smith claimed and so on.

I see this idea of a "evolving church" allot lately.

As a full believing latter day saint I did not like most the book. When I read it as a young missionary I felt horrible and hopeless. I was a teen a served my mission when Spencer Kimball was the LDS prophet. So his words in this book likely had even more impact. I wondered if I would ever have any hope of being in the celestial kingdom given that I had done lots wrong and continued to do lots of wrong things. The book also colored how I looked at the world at other humans. Even today I have trouble I think shaking off much of what was ingrained in e as a youth that came from this book and other similar teachings in other venues from Kimball and other LDS leaders. But of course my dislike of the book I viewed as my flaw and weakness.

I was brought up in a church of mostly ex-lds, it was a horrible experience that I'm still trying to recover from. After reading this book, I realized that they were probably teaching from this book, even though they had left the LDS.

Through my twenties and early thirties I strived to perfect myself. I was often filled with self loathing and hatred and felt like a dismal failure for all weaknessed I had had ans still had. I suffered from some depression that while likely was not totally related to the teachings from Kimball and others they certainly exacerbated it.

I realize your a NOM, and I realize that the LDS says the LIVING prophet won't lead you astray. This really reminds me of islam and the koran where newer revelation Trump's older revelation.

Then I started really reading scripture, including LDS scripture, especially the Book of Mormon and New Testament and I realized that even in LDS canon there was this thing called grace and faith in Jesus and justification. I formed an idea that perfection was obtainable only through Christ and His forgiveness and if I had faith in him I was justified and that the rest was more the sanctification thing and everyone would be on their on very different journey on that path. All would stumble and sin along the way and improve and such. But that did no save them. Their perfect partner Jesus did. Otherwise if someone needed 75 years to do all that was needed to perfect themselves and they dies at 40 they were in trouble. I fugured God would not work that way. During this time I picked up a book by an LDS religion professor from BYU. His name is Stephen Robinson and the book was Believing Christ. Well it put in to a more succinct presentation all I had been discovering in scripture. I decided that too many LDS leaders had been much too works oriented and I saw that some were moving more to grace, justification and then sanctification.

So you would be quiet offended by kimball saying “One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation.” (pp. 206-207)

That's really great. You sound like your a born again Mormon. But let me ask you. With this new knowledge, do you believe that a Christian, that rejects Joseph Smith and all the ordinances and commandments of the LDS gospel, can attain the highest that God has to offer, meaning celestial kingdom etc..

"Believing Christ" next on my reading list.. but I've found no use of this book in conference, or official LDS writings.. but loads of support for the miracle. I think that says something about where the church stands on the issue.

Secondly, If I'm taking you right, you say the ordinances of the LDS such as tithe, temple rights, refraining from coffee, drink, temple marriage and so on, are your sanctification, do you think that sanctification is a work of man or a work of God's spirit?

During this time I was also called to be and LDS bishop. So I made it my goal at least during my time and in my little ward to focus on grace, mercy and justification. I refused to use the book Miracle of Forgiveness when I worked with persons that were struggling with sin and error in their life. I could share more on this but I think the members I worked with received this message with a lot of joy. I used a talk where i asked "If you were to die tomorrow would you be inherit the celestial kingdom?" And then I showed with the Book of Mormon and even the D&C as well as the New Testament why it was likely that most could say yes.

What if they bring up from many a quote in the D&C that says this is not true, how do you answer that? That this prophet is right and this prophet was wrong?

Now that I have moved away from being a literal TBM type I will tell you how I feel about the book. I despise it. I loathe it. I think it is a hideous book. It should be names :" Repent all ye heathens!" I think the book has caused a lot of heart ache and unnecessary shame and guilt. The formula Kimball outlines it really an impossible formula and really does take away the Good News of the gospel. And that is what I used to say..."The Gospel is good news not bad news!"

I thought of this verse when I read it: Luke 11:46 - ...And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.

It was quoted and used by bishops and mission presidents and so on. As noted it was long one of a few books approved for use in study by LDS missionaries.

Ya, I found there were like six books approved as late as 2006. Don't know if that's correct.

Thanks for your thoughts, very helpful!

[_ezravan]

o

[_Buffalo]

The Miracle of Forgiveness is possibly the worst example of psychological abuse and outright nuttery ever put in print.

You don't read much do you?

Nehor, your responses are getting lazier and lazier. What's the deal?

I've read the Miracle of Forgiveness. Have you?

[_Buffalo]

I thought of this verse when I read it: Luke 11:46 - ...And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.

Yes, that really applies well, not only to the Miracle of Forgiveness, but also to LDS leadership in general.