Unrighteous Feelings and Emotions

[_beefcalf]

Interesting question, Beefcalf, one that I had not heard before.
My understanding is that they had none.

Hoops,

My familiarity is with LDS theology, so I may be off in my understanding of the nuances and subtle differences between Mormon theology and those of the wider Christian mainstream.

That being said, my understanding is that Adam and Eve could not, or would not, have the knowledge necessary to have children unless they partook of the fruit.

If Adam was made perfect, a claim that I do not dispute (other than the fact of Adam's existence), but fell and became imperfect by partaking of the fruit, and if the children of Adam and Eve could not be born until that event took place, it seems to me that God's plan depended upon Adam's fall.

I don't think it helps your position to say that Adam was made perfect but became imperfect through his own actions if your very existence, and the existence of every person on the planet, depended upon him taking that sinful action.

If it was God's plan that Adam should fall into sin, then why is it our fault that we are 'sinful'?

It sounds to me like it was God's very intent.

[_beefcalf]

And the the message was given that we shouldn't feel those things...or give in to those feelings.

I believe that you heard this information in a talk by a lay member of the ward, right? If so, I wouldn't take it too seriously. We are entitled to our own opinions. However, what you should have done was approach the speaker with your questions. Nothing wrong in that. But most likely you were silent and came to the board to complain.

Do you ever stop being a dick?

[_why me]

Do you ever stop being a dick?

Conversation is a wonderful tool for understanding someone's viewpoint. Nothing wrong in approaching the speaker with some comments and concerns. The point is: people say may things from the pulpit and some is not correct. But they are just people trying to articulate their viewpoint.

[_beefcalf]

Do you ever stop being a dick?

Conversation is a wonderful tool for understanding someone's viewpoint. Nothing wrong in approaching the speaker with some comments and concerns. The point is: people say may things from the pulpit and some is not correct. But they are just people trying to articulate their viewpoint.

The point is: you felt the need to tell Just Me that the fault lies with her, because you imagine that she should have made a scene after sacrament meeting, and you attempt to smear her motives by saying she comes here to 'complain'.

Why me comes here to discuss. Just me comes here to complain. Nice.

[_LDSToronto]

And the the message was given that we shouldn't feel those things...or give in to those feelings.

I believe that you heard this information in a talk by a lay member of the ward, right? If so, I wouldn't take it too seriously. We are entitled to our own opinions. However, what you should have done was approach the speaker with your questions. Nothing wrong in that. But most likely you were silent and came to the board to complain.

That's because JustMe is a sweetheart, and recognizes how hard it can be to give a talk.

Coming here to share feelings is what this place is about.

H.

[_LDSToronto]

Every emotion is healthy, some emotions in excess are probably not. All I know is the day I stopped taking advice from the pulpit was the day I became much happier.

H.

[_just me]

This was a stake message...chosen and delivered by stake leadership. This is a message I hear a LOT from our church. This isn't an isolated incident, if it was I would have worded the OP differently.This is a message I grew up with and it took me a long time to get over it...I don't even know if I am over it, yet.

Oh, and I <3 beefcalf and LDST. xoxo

beef, I totally love your analogy!

Jersey Girl, re: Jesus getting angry, the church teaches that that was "righteous anger" and that it was okay because he was angry about evil. So, I guess we are allowed to be angry about evil. Obviously we are taught some contradictory things.

I'm also not suggesting that people hold on to negative emotions and let them fester. And I've said nothing about actions. I am strictly speaking about feelings and emotions and the unhealthy consequences of suppressing them or pretending they aren't there. I think that acknowledging them is actually a good way of helping them heal and dissapate...or get channeled into positive change. You can't heal or get help for that which you stuff down and deny.

[_Hoops]

That being said, my understanding is that Adam and Eve could not, or would not, have the knowledge necessary to have children unless they partook of the fruit.

That's interesting. Okay, I have a different perspective. I've NEVER heard that Adam and Eve did consumate. Given that man and woman are made to have that kind of union, I see no reason to believe that they did not. Nor does Genesis indicate that they had children.

If Adam was made perfect, a claim that I do not dispute (other than the fact of Adam's existence), but fell and became imperfect by partaking of the fruit,

That's my understanding.

and if the children of Adam and Eve could not be born until that event took place, it seems to me that God's plan depended upon Adam's fall.

I'm not sure that they could not have children. I think it is that they didn't have children. YOu'll note in Gen 3 (I think) that Eve "shall" have pain in childbirth as part of the curse. That indicates that she had not had children before. I understand that one could make the claim that the "pain" is the future event indicated, but I don't think that's warranted. Particularly because the Bible is so explicit of at least some of their later children. It's reasonable to assume that their first child, born before the fall, would be mentioned.

I don't think it helps your position to say that Adam was made perfect but became imperfect through his own actions if your very existence, and the existence of every person on the planet, depended upon him taking that sinful action.

If that was my position, then it would not. But that's not my position.

If it was God's plan that Adam should fall into sin, then why is it our fault that we are 'sinful'?

It was NOT God's plan that Adam fall. That is NOT a Christian position.

I will freely grant that the events in The Garden were a test.

[_Jersey Girl]

Hopelessness and despair were specifically pointed out as "tools of the adversary" rather than being labeled unrighteous. But it was all in the same talk.

They are tools of the adversary because they deny the human being the joy that he or she deserves as spirit beings on a human journey. These two emotions can also lead to suicide.

We, humans need to be shocked and awed by life and all its beauty. The opposite is a tool of the devil.

These are not tools of the adversary. These are signs of clinical depression you moron. Altered brain chemistry is not a tool, it's a fully treatable condition. The leading cause of suicide is not the "tools of the adversary". The leading cause of suicide is untreated depression.

Please shut the hell up.

[_just me]

I <3 my BFF