Unrighteous Feelings and Emotions

[_Blixa]

I am sure that just me went to stake conference hoping that someone would say something stupid so she could moan about it to her husband, friend and to this board.

As beefcalf noted before, "Do you ever stop being a dick?" You are not a mind reader, you were not there and if anything justme has ever written on this board would lead you to this conclusion about her motives you have serious reading problems.

Now I gave an explanation about the notion of dispair and hopelessness as a symptom of a market driven socioeconomic system which plays losers and winners within a creed of social darwinism. Such a system plants seeds of dispair in people and when times get tough, hopelessness. And this is why new age gurus and self help positive thinking books are a big business in capitalist societies.

Lets look at britain with the latest riots from people that were generally marginalized and pissed off. They acted out their hopelessness and dispair.

Well, bully for you, but this bears no relation to what justme described as the lesson she received. In fact, such a take on the relations between material conditions of existence and individual emotion is entirely outside of the "spiritual" explanation that LDS leaders endorse in their publications and talks. I never heard such explanations at church, neither have I ever come across them in LDS magazines and lesson manuals. If I ever had you can be sure that I would be the #1 supporter of such a position.

Furthermore, I have many friends who are much more TBM than justme; yesterday I noted a number of them posting status updates on Facebook about similar lessons that disturbed them on Sunday. These are just a few response, but to my mind they lend credence to justme's general account of the lesson.

Personally I think that such emtions are normal. We all go through these periods of frustration, darkness, hopelessness and dispair. It is quite normal. And I believe that the speaker was refering to the normalacy of it all and how such thoughts needed to be controled before they became a normal part of life.

I agree with you, but it seems the speaker justme heard did not. There is no way you can make phrases like "tools of the adversary" and "unrighteous emotions" denote anything close to an understanding that such things are "normal."

I have no problems with such talks as the one heard by just me. She had a problem with it. Thus, my disagreement with her. Now I would have hoped that the speaker would have given a critique to the socioeconomic system in the united states and how it plays on these emotions. But...that would have been too much to ask for.

And yes, I believe that free market social darwinistic capitalism is of the devil because it breeds hopelessness, dispair, greed, envy and hate.

whyme, if you indeed believe the things you claim to, then you bloody well should have a problem with such talks. To say you don't is to completely undercut your sincerity and commitment.

Indeed, even you seem to recognize this when you remark, "Now I would have hoped that the speaker would have given a critique to the socioeconomic system in the united states and how it plays on these emotions. But...that would have been too much to ask for." Somewhere in the back of your head you, too, well understand the frustrations many people here have with the contemporary LDS church. In fact, your elliptical coda is one of the most damning indictments against the church that I've read on this site. Thanks for providing it.

[_stemelbow]

I've never taken "being a happy person", or "living happy life" to mean ranges of emotions shall not be had. They seem to have their place. I feel mourning is probably the most important emotion to general happiness personally. That's just an example. But on another note, anger, while having its place, is something I don't want being a key to my life.

Generally speaking, I agree with the OP's notion. And it is often the case, it seems to me, LDS speak of being happy as if to try and convince him/herself that they are the happiest. When we get to that point, I don't know what is even meant by happiness.

[_just me]

I've never taken "being a happy person", or "living happy life" to mean ranges of emotions shall not be had. They seem to have their place. I feel mourning is probably the most important emotion to general happiness personally. That's just an example. But on another note, anger, while having its place, is something I don't want being a key to my life.

I certainly am not argueing that anger or hopelessness should be they "key" to our lives or even a major part of them. I am just saying that they should not be suppressed and denied and pretend we don't feel them. They usually need to be acknowledged and worked through so we can heal. Anger is a stage of the mourning process....you want to work through that anger not stuff it down and not stay stuck in it.

Generally speaking, I agree with the OP's notion. And it is often the case, it seems to me, LDS speak of being happy as if to try and convince him/herself that they are the happiest. When we get to that point, I don't know what is even meant by happiness.

I've even started at least one thread asking what Mormon's mean by this happiness that suppposedly they have access to that nobody else does. Nobody can answer. I've seen no evidence that Mormon's have a special joy or happiness that is not accessible to every other human on the planet. So, yeah, the whole "we have lasting joy and happiness" mantra becomes pretty meaningless.



by the way, I <3 Rambo and Blixa.

[_Yoda]

I am sure that just me went to stake conference hoping that someone would say something stupid so she could moan about it to her husband, friend and to this board. I have seen it before many times. Negativity is a catching virus when it comes to the lds church. Fault is found with the institution, with the members, with the leaders etc. Fault is found with what members say and do, especially with those teaching classes or giving talks.

There is nothing in this. However the positive talks and lessons are ignored. And this is what seems to be with just me.

Then you obviously have a reading comprehension problem. Either that, or you are purposely choosing to quote-mine. In the time I have read Just Me, I have found her to be a pretty straight-shooter. She brings up the good with the bad. Also, her viewpoint lends a lot more credibility to the board than yours because, unlike you, she actually ATTENDS her Church on a weekly basis.

Now I gave an explanation about the notion of dispair and hopelessness as a symptom of a market driven socioeconomic system which plays losers and winners within a creed of social darwinism. Such a system plants seeds of dispair in people and when times get tough, hopelessness. And this is why new age gurus and self help positive thinking books are a big business in capitalist societies.

Lets look at britain with the latest riots from people that were generally marginalized and pissed off. They acted out their hopelessness and dispair.

Personally I think that such emtions are normal. We all go through these periods of frustration, darkness, hopelessness and dispair. It is quite normal. And I believe that the speaker was refering to the normalacy of it all and how such thoughts needed to be controled before they became a normal part of life.

And you're gleaning all of this information regarding what the speaker said from....what? Were you there? Did you hear the speaker? No. Just Me heard the speaker.

Look, I appreciate the fact that you have made it your duty to attempt to level the playing field here, and defend the Church. But, I think that in the process, you are seeing things in people that are not necessarily there. You're also not giving those of us who do devote a large portion of our time to the LDS Church, or, for that matter, those of us who did devote a serious portion of time to the LDS Church for a number of years, due diligence.

From what I have read regarding your experiences with the Church, they are extremely atypical of what most members have experienced. I am not accusing you of lying. I believe that your experiences are as valid as anyone else. But, please, do not discount others who have different outlooks from your own.

And, your comment regarding Just Me specifically going to a Stake Meeting to look for things she could come back here and complain about was completely inappropriate. I believe that you owe her an apology.

Have some posters here come across as someone who would do something like that? Yes, I can think of a few. Just Me, however, would never even cross my mind. You really either haven't read much of what she has posted, or you seriously need to take a class in comprehension.

Just Me went to a Stake Meeting because she needed to attend a Stake Meeting. She is an active Latter-Day Saint who holds a calling. I would say that pretty much trumps any LDS service you have given in the last decade.

[_just me]

Here is a positive:

One of the most amazing moments I have ever experienced in Relief Society was when one of our teachers stood at the front of the class and told us that she had been gone for so many months because she was crippled by depression. She literally could not drag herself out of bed. She then said that all the prayer and scripture study in the world would not cure her depression. She finally went to the doctor and was prescribed a medication. She bore her testimony of medication and how she was now able to get out of bed and feel normal. All the women in that room were so touched and happy that she was able to get the help that she needed. I also hope that if any of the women in that room were feeling or some day feel depressed that they too are able to go to their doctor and get the medical attention that they need. I hope that it prevents even one woman from trying to pray her way over depression.

And obviously, the things she shared had nothing to do with the lesson manual or correlated gospel messages. It is also obvious that many women in the church feel that they should be able to get over serious problems such as depression by just praying harder, fasting and reading their damn scriptures. They got that idea from church!

oh, and I <3 Liz.

[_Yoda]

Here is a positive:

One of the most amazing moments I have ever experienced in Relief Society was when one of our teachers stood at the front of the class and told us that she had been gone for so many months because she was crippled by depression. She literally could not drag herself out of bed. She then said that all the prayer and scripture study in the world would not cure her depression. She finally went to the doctor and was prescribed a medication. She bore her testimony of medication and how she was now able to get out of bed and feel normal. All the women in that room were so touched and happy that she was able to get the help that she needed. I also hope that if any of the women in that room were feeling or some day feel depressed that they too are able to go to their doctor and get the medical attention that they need. I hope that it prevents even one woman from trying to pray her way over depression.

And obviously, the things she shared had nothing to do with the lesson manual or correlated gospel messages. It is also obvious that many women in the church feel that they should be able to get over serious problems such as depression by just praying harder, fasting and reading their damn scriptures. They got that idea from church!

oh, and I <3 Liz.

This is a great example of uplifting lessons, Just Me! :-)

I hope that more women are inspired to give these types of RS lessons.

As far as the stigma on mental health, I don't necessarily blame the Church. I think that it is still very misunderstood within society, in general. Physical ailments and pain are much easier to detect and treat. What people fail to realize is that a mental illness is just as valid an illness as any physical ailment. We all need to be educated, and continue to educate others on this very real problem, and treatments which can be life-saving solutions.

[_just me]

That is so, so true Liz. It isn't just the church.
What is funny is that what that teacher said was before she even gave the actual lesson. I remember that part and have no idea what the correlated lesson was about.

[_gramps]

If I walked in on my wife and the Bishop in our bed, I perhaps might get a little angry. But, I would shortly reconsider where my anger was coming from (the Devil), go back in the bedroom, and ask for their forgiveness. Then, I would set an appointment with the Bishop to work on a forgiveness program to make sure no residue of anger at all remained.

[_Yoda]

If I walked in on my wife and the Bishop in our bed, I perhaps might get a little angry. But, I would shortly reconsider where my anger was coming from (the Devil), go back in the bedroom, and ask for their forgiveness. Then, I would set an appointment with the Bishop to work on a forgiveness program to make sure no residue of anger at all remained.

LOL!

[_just me]

If I walked in on my wife and the Bishop in our bed, I perhaps might get a little angry. But, I would shortly reconsider where my anger was coming from (the Devil), go back in the bedroom, and ask for their forgiveness. Then, I would set an appointment with the Bishop to work on a forgiveness program to make sure no residue of anger at all remained.

ROTFLMAO