Leaving the church helps a person become diplomatic

[_zeezrom]

I had a long conversation with my dad on the phone today. He mentioned during our call how he will always hope we can come back and do everything he can to make us see the light that we are straying from. During our call, I felt many urges to explain/defend my position. Believe me, I had many opportunities during the call.

I had to swallow that urge.

I told him that while he continually hopes for a change in us, we likewise do not continually hope for a change in them. We are happy the way they are and hope they continue to live the way that makes them happy. He said he appreciated that because "if I started preaching to my siblings about my opinions, [he] would be pretty upset." That's fine. I let it go. It feels good to just let these things go. It doesn't bother me.

Now is the time to say thank you to the people I have spoken to over the past two years. I have been given literally hundreds of hours of free consulting time and therapy by the good people on this board and other places. How can I repay that? I suppose I could be supportive of others that come our way. This is sort of like F&TM where you say how "grateful" you are to so-and-so and so-and-so for all the things they said and did. I can't name any names because there are too many.

You know who you are.

I may have come across as insincere to some/many of you from time to time. It pains me to think it. I hope everyone can know you have made a positive difference to me. Nobody has made up my mind for me but only given support when it was really needed. Most of all, you have helped me see that I don't need to make others think the way I do. That is the beauty of it. What an excellent life lesson!

That was a blather and a half. Gotta go!

Zee.

[_Fence Sitter]

Zee,

I have had similar conversations with my father. I understand the temptation to want to defend your position and even more so the decision not to. I have maintained a great relationship with my parents and my siblings because we all understand that our family is the most important thing.

[_zeezrom]

I have maintained a great relationship with my parents and my siblings because we all understand that our family is the most important thing.

I'm glad to hear of it, FS. I have high hopes for my own family.

One of the themes I found to be very strong in my dad's speech yesterday was the Great Singularity of the LDS Church. According to him, LDS is:

1. The One Truth
2. The Provider of Necessary Steps
3. The Balancer of Mind
4. The Perfect Guide
5. The Protecting Cradle for our little ones
6. The Shield from filth and mire

He told me he has finally been able to "get past the embarrassment, anger, and disappointment." Now he just "feels sorry for us."

He asked if I have told our bishop not to visit us (i.e. take name off the records) or if the members are afraid to visit us and I said no. He seemed relieved. I told him there have been many times where I have been tempted to pretend like I believe because it would be so much easier. He didn't know what to say to that. In the end, I realized that my days as a member are probably numbered.

[_Wisdom Seeker]

You probably should have many more good long conversations with your dad. He may just even begin to see why you believe the way you do. Just don't tell him about your weird dreams.

[_zeezrom]

You probably should have many more good long conversations with your dad. He may just even begin to see why you believe the way you do. Just don't tell him about your weird dreams.

Haha, well he was another person that told me the "dream" was ok while the "other thing" wasn't.

What's wrong with talking about our dreams? They are just dreams, right?

by the way, I didn't have a good one last night though I tried to fall asleep thinking about awesome dreams.

Dear moderators: don't worry, this is the end of my digression into the abyss.

[_Fence Sitter]

I have maintained a great relationship with my parents and my siblings because we all understand that our family is the most important thing.

I'm glad to hear of it, FS. I have high hopes for my own family.

One of the themes I found to be very strong in my dad's speech yesterday was the Great Singularity of the LDS Church. According to him, LDS is:

1. The One Truth
2. The Provider of Necessary Steps
3. The Balancer of Mind
4. The Perfect Guide
5. The Protecting Cradle for our little ones
6. The Shield from filth and mire

He told me he has finally been able to "get past the embarrassment, anger, and disappointment." Now he just "feels sorry for us."

He asked if I have told our bishop not to visit us (i.e. take name off the records) or if the members are afraid to visit us and I said no. He seemed relieved. I told him there have been many times where I have been tempted to pretend like I believe because it would be so much easier. He didn't know what to say to that. In the end, I realized that my days as a member are probably numbered.

You father sounds remarkably like mine. Beyond my immediate family, my father is the most important person in my life, and some one whom I greatly respect and love. I don't think I have heard all those points in one discussion with him, but certainly most of them have been brought up over time. (I have been inactive for 30 years.) I think time can be a wonderful moderator and healer. I am sure the impulse on both sides, right now, is to convince the other of the error of their ways. I have always tried to let my dad know that I understood how important both the Church and I am to him. It does not bother me that I may be second on that list either. It may be a long time before he understands why you feel the way you do, or he may never get to that point. In a way, I think, my relationship with my father has been strengthened over the years more by our differences than by that on which we agree.

[_zeezrom]

In a way, I think, my relationship with my father has been strengthened over the years more by our differences than by that on which we agree.

This is indeed hopeful, FS.

Thanks!

[_Yoda]

He asked if I have told our bishop not to visit us (i.e. take name off the records) or if the members are afraid to visit us and I said no. He seemed relieved. I told him there have been many times where I have been tempted to pretend like I believe because it would be so much easier. He didn't know what to say to that. In the end, I realized that my days as a member are probably numbered.

Zee, why do you say that your days as a member is numbered? What exactly do you mean by that?

Are you worried that you will be excommunicated for your disbelief? I honestly don't see that happening.

[_Blixa]

Zeez, I was pretty upset to read about your father's reactions. Here you are, an amazingly creative, alive, joyful man who deeply loves his wife and children, and exudes a passion for learning that astounds me. And this is what he finds "disappointing" and has to feel "sorry for."

It's astounding.

I'm thrilled to know a person like you! Watching you discover new and wonderful things in the world and stretch your mind and imagination---my god, this is what life is all about!! I wish I knew a hundred zeezs!

I mean, you ARE a living embodiment of "Man is that he might have joy!" The fresh eyes with which you are encountering the world help me see it anew, too!

I want to say more, but I'll hold off. I don't really know your father after all, I just know that what you wrote reminds me of things I used to hear in my youth. Not from my parents thank god (thank you for helping me appreciate them!) but from small minded, ignorant and uneducated ward members who attempted to condescend to me...

[_zeezrom]

Zee, why do you say that your days as a member is numbered? What exactly do you mean by that?

.

Because I'm dramatic.

Whenever I get the feeling that someone is exerting huge amounts of energy to get me to be something I don't want to be, I tend to push the opposite way. Reading between the lines, I felt my dad was determined and planning to contact our bishop again. I would like to quietly fade out but if family uses jihad on us, more drastic measures are more likely to be used.

But Liz, it's true that I was being dramatic. I don't plan to write the letter.