Mormon Apologist Maklelan Admits Mormon Church UNTRUE

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_maklelan
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Re: Mormon Apologist Maklelan Admits Mormon Church UNTRUE

Post by _maklelan »

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:The vast majority of posters on these boards presume to "condescend" to other adults, yourself included Mak. I'd be curious to hear why you joined the LDS version of Mormonism, but I don't really care. In the age of the internet is it a pretty stupid thing to do? Probably no more so than joining Scientology.


You're either trying to sound cute or you really don't know much about one or the other tradition.

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:The advertizing for the two is very similar,


The "advertising" is in no way similar.

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:maybe it was just "luck" that you clicked on the "I'm a Mormon" ad instead of the "I'm a Scientologist" ad.


I've never clicked on an "I'm a Mormon" ad.

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:I don't understand why anyone would join Mormonism, especially with the amount of information available. I don't understand why anyone would join Scientology either. At least you got a job out of it.


Your posts are usually more thoughtful and measured than this. Are you having a bad day?
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_Kittens_and_Jesus
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Re: Mormon Apologist Maklelan Admits Mormon Church UNTRUE

Post by _Kittens_and_Jesus »

Michael wrote:
Polygamy-Porter wrote:If I recall correctly, Makelan is an adult convert?

Why on earth would any cognitive logical adult accept the BS of LDS Inc is beyond me.

Its been a while Makie, was this due to your current wife or past girl friend being LDS?

If you don't mind, please refresh us on why an intelligent, logically thinking, cognitive adult like yourself would join a corporate church such as LDS Inc.


Can you explain why an intelligent, logically thinking, cognitive adult...quote]

Since when are 20 year olds "logically thinking, cognizant (fixed that for you) adult(s)..."?

Most people don't get their heads screwed on straight until they're 25-30.

A lucky few figure it out early on.

Anyways, the fact that many of the truth claims of the church don't pass the smell test, let alone scientific scrutiny is explanation enough as to why a level headed youth might not buy into it.
As soon as you concern yourself with the 'good' and 'bad' of your fellows, you create an opening in your heart for maliciousness to enter. Testing, competing with, and criticizing others weaken and defeat you. - O'Sensei
_TrashcanMan79
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Re: Mormon Apologist Maklelan Admits Mormon Church UNTRUE

Post by _TrashcanMan79 »

maklelan wrote:I've never clicked on an "I'm a Mormon" ad.

Then you shouldn't be saying the advertising of the Scientologists and Mormons "is in no way similar." The "Meet a Scientologist" campaign is very similar indeed to the "I'm a Mormon" campaign.
_maklelan
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Re: Mormon Apologist Maklelan Admits Mormon Church UNTRUE

Post by _maklelan »

TrashcanMan79 wrote:Then you shouldn't be saying the advertising of the Scientologists and Mormons "is in no way similar." The "Meet a Scientologist" campaign is very similar indeed to the "I'm a Mormon" campaign.


I work for the Church's Publishing Services Department. I don't need to click on the ads. The similarities between the two campaigns are quite broad, and only make up one small slice of a quite diverse and distinct set of pies.
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_EAllusion
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Re: Mormon Apologist Maklelan Admits Mormon Church UNTRUE

Post by _EAllusion »

maklelan wrote:
TrashcanMan79 wrote:Then you shouldn't be saying the advertising of the Scientologists and Mormons "is in no way similar." The "Meet a Scientologist" campaign is very similar indeed to the "I'm a Mormon" campaign.


I work for the Church's Publishing Services Department. I don't need to click on the ads. The similarities between the two campaigns are quite broad, and only make up one small slice of a quite diverse and distinct set of pies.


They both are combating the public reputations of their religions as weird and remote by putting forward testimonials o engaging people with interesting hobbies and careers while they talk about the benefits of their religion. Both ads are squarely aimed at busting stereotypes of their members. This is done to normalize the faith.

The way the commercials are filmed are highly similar, cutting between tight closeups of the person giving their normalizing testimony, shots of them engaging in interesting, desirable things, and shots of hanging out with friends and family. It's like they ordered from the same advertising package.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMj9FnwPQpk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jOhOB8MD7g

These are highly similar ads.
_EAllusion
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Re: Mormon Apologist Maklelan Admits Mormon Church UNTRUE

Post by _EAllusion »

I pulled those two ads at random, incidentally. I wasn't even trying to find the two most similar ones.
_maklelan
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Re: Mormon Apologist Maklelan Admits Mormon Church UNTRUE

Post by _maklelan »

EAllusion wrote:They both are combating the public reputations of their religions as weird and remote by putting forward testimonials o engaging people with interesting hobbies and careers while they talk about the benefits of their religion. Both ads are squarely aimed at busting stereotypes of their members. This is done to normalize the faith.


So you're suggesting that having a shared goal means their ad campaigns are "very similar."

EAllusion wrote:The way the commercials are filmed are highly similar, cutting between tight closeups of the person giving their normalizing testimony, shots of them engaging in interesting, desirable things, and shots of hanging out with friends and family. It's like they ordered from the same advertising package.


It's just a standard interview format. You see it on special interest stories of all kinds from all over the world of digital media.

EAllusion wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMj9FnwPQpk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jOhOB8MD7g

These are highly similar ads.


That doesn't their advertising campaigns are very similar. It certainly doesn't invite comparisons of Scientology and Mormonism on any level in any way meaningful.
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_EAllusion
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Re: Mormon Apologist Maklelan Admits Mormon Church UNTRUE

Post by _EAllusion »

maklelan wrote:
So you're suggesting that having a shared goal means their ad campaigns are "very similar."


I'm saying that they are thematically similar. They are written in a similar style with similar wording and a similar implied argument. They are filmed in a similar way. It's hard to imagine them being more similar while still being about distinct religions. If I was told they were written, produced, and directed by the same team, I would not be surprised at all.

It's just a standard interview format. You see it on special interest stories of all kinds from all over the world of digital media.


It's one distinct style among a variety of options. It's certainly not unique to their ads, but it also isn't the only way to deliver a testimonial.
_Hasa Diga Eebowai
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Post by _Hasa Diga Eebowai »

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_maklelan
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Re: Mormon Apologist Maklelan Admits Mormon Church UNTRUE

Post by _maklelan »

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:LOL! Good one Mak. I just found it quite ironic that you were criticizing another poster for being condescending when if we're all honest we all do quite a bit of that, yourself included.


The criticism was for being condescending while also using nonsensical language in an attempt to sound erudite. I'm perfectly aware of how much we all do it, including me.

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:Your reasons for being LDS make no difference in my life, that isn't to say I'm not curious as to why a man in his 20s would join the LDS Church, it just doesn't really matter. When you know about the origins of both organizations and their recruitment methods then for those without a vested interest in either there are quite a few striking similarities and the claim that there aren't any shows a lack of awareness on the part of the person making the claim.


The rather broad and generic similarities (using interview shots mixed with voiceovers during wider action shots?) are eclipsed numerous times over by the stark and innumerable differences in both style and substance. To say their "advertising" is "very similar" is just inaccurate. A handful of videos may appear to be shot with the same basic techniques, but that, as I am pretty sure I already said, is a small slice of a very large and distinct set of pies.

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:Yet, when the advertizing is shown to be similar to you, you aren't even willing to admit that it is, why is that?


Because one set of videos does not constitute "the advertising." Perhaps, however, that's the only advertising you have seen from either, but the "I'm a Mormon" videos are a quite small portion of a very large and variegated set of campaigns.

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:Any disinterested person would be willing to admit that the advertizing is very similar, so why aren't you willing to?


No, any disinterested person would not admit that. Any disinterested person once they had an adequate grasp of the information would acknowledge that similar best practice techniques are employed in some videos that make up a small portion of the LDS Church's advertising campaigns.

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:Maybe you just aren't aware of your Church's advertizing push?


As I already said, I work for the Church's Publishing Services Department, which is entirely responsible for all their advertising. I'm far better acquainted with the Church's advertising push than you are, which, I'm beginning to think, is part of the reason we're talking past each other. I'm thinking of "the advertising" in terms of the multi-channel global advertising campaigns. You're thinking of one set of videos. Had you said the "I'm a Mormon" videos are very similar to some videos released by Scientologists we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:But links have been provided to both ads and you still aren't willing to admit that they are similar? It just comes across as you being in denial Mak.


I don't think you're really trying that hard to listen to what I'm saying. I acknowledged that there are some technical similarities in the way some videos were shot, which, I hope by now it goes without saying, does not equate to "the advertising" being "very similar."

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:I doubt you converted during the "I'm a Mormon" campaign. I do wonder though if instead of people asking you to pray about the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon you'd been invited to an auditing session at the Church of Scientology if the "evidence" that their Church was "true" might have led you to become a Scientologist. The belief systems and methods of attaining "truth" or gaining benefit are pretty unreliable but people feel that they do make them happy so why not?


I can tell you I would not. I was very skeptical of Mormonism when I was first introduced to it, and Scientology is on an entirely different level of charter myth.

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:It's funny you say that because the reason I wrote it was because I figured you might be taking it all too seriously. I just found it comical for you to be talking down to people while being so condescending.


My concern was with the fumbled attempt to use $2 words, not just the fact that he was trying to be condescending. Condescend away, but at least don't screw it up so royally.

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:The reality is that there is as much objective evidence for Scientology as there is for the LDS Church.


The objective evidence for absolutely all religious faith claims from absolutely all religion is equally null.

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:There is probably actually more evidence contradicting LDS claims than there is for Scientology.


Another example of you either just trying to sound cute or not really knowing much about one or the other.

Hasa Diga Eebowai wrote:It's interesting to consider what would lead a 20 something to join a group like Scientology or Mormonism, and the decision is most likely baffling to most people, but if it makes you happy then why not?


Yeah, if I'm happy in my ignorance, far be it from enlightened people like you to bring me grief, right? I understand the therapeutic use of this kind of discourse for many disaffected Latter-day Saints and others who feel like they've been hurt or otherwise slighted by the LDS Church, but you can also save the condescension for someone else.
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