Mormon Meltdown on Facebook

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_RayAgostini

Re: Mormon Meltdown on Facebook

Post by _RayAgostini »

Kevin Graham wrote:Excuse me Ray? More ignorant speculation... Jesus.

My wife called me at work to ask me what the hell is going on on Facebook. I was posting from work, she was reading as the discussion took place. But nice jab there. Insinuating that I have some vested interest in painting bad images of Mormons for my wife to see. Good grief. Trust me, they need no help from me.


I don't even know who this Loyd guy is. Is he representative of all Mormons? Look at the title of your thread, Kevin: Mormon meltdown on Facebook. (Emphasis mine)

Do you think this is fair? How would this go down: "Jewish meltdown on Facebook"? I guess that would be unacceptable? Or, "Muslim meltdown on Facebook". One person, expressing a personal opinion, is representative of all Mormons?
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Mormon Meltdown on Facebook

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Ray, that's a bad analogy because Mormon can refer to a person whereas you wouldn't say "Jewish" meltdown, you'd say "Jew meltdown."

Loyd is a professed Mormon, yes. He was commenting on a subject directly related to his religion. He was also acting like a complete jackass when I dared to challenge his thinking. I did nothing here except ask him for further information about why he felt the way he did. He responded with insults, telling me I was just a bitter ex-Mormon who refused to see the light, that I should stick my face in the toilet, poke my eye out, the kind of stupid crap you'd expect to hear from a teenager who just lost his favorite Xbox controller.
_Yoda

Re: Mormon Meltdown on Facebook

Post by _Yoda »

maklelan wrote:
liz3564 wrote:Aren't we talking about Scott Lloyd?


No, the guy's first name is Loyd. I don't know how he feels about his full name being on this board, though.

Oh, sorry.

Well, then Loyd owes Kevin an apology. ;-)
_Jason Bourne
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Re: Mormon Meltdown on Facebook

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Tobin wrote:Actually, I find the fact that Romney is a Mormon means it is absolutely fair game. If he is uncomfortable about answering questions about it, then I don't understand why he wants to run for president? I am very curious about what would have happened when Romney as president tried to enter the temple without his secret service detail. There are just so many interesting (read humorous) scenarios w/ a Mormon in the White House.


I think if there ever is a President Romney he will not be attending the temple at all for the duration of his term.
_Kevin Graham
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Re: Mormon Meltdown on Facebook

Post by _Kevin Graham »

I don't think this is accurate. He was quite clearly passing judgment.


I don't see that in the transcript, so I guess you're reading body language. In any event, I think most Americans would agree wholeheartedly with him. The practice of BFTD is pretty stupid in the eyes of non-Mormons. And it is hardly surprising that the media would jump on this when the Church has included Jewish names in their unique religious ordinance, in which they also included the name of Adolf Hitler.

I disagree.


Why? He presented the LDS side. If he wanted to make sure his audience accepted his unspoken judgment - inferred from body language? - then why include their side at all?

Concern with the mistake is legit, but the mistake was intentionally misrepresented. Wiesel could not have been on any list as "ready to baptize." That his name was there is just obviously a mistake. As the rep from the church stated, had the form gone through the whole process with the mistake, the name would have been rejected.


So now you're complaining because the Jew got it all wrong, which is something entirely different. Look, O'Donnel is just letting him have his say the same as he let the Church have its say. Maybe if the Church would stop with these silly press releases and let an official Church representative actually speak to the media about these issues, there'd be less room for speculation about who is right or wrong. As it is, the Church comes across like any other typical corporation that is trying to hide or obfuscate an act of wrongdoing. That's the perception sure, but the media isn't to blame for that.

I agree with the final sentence, but the notion that the occasional slipping through of a name indicates there were "no efforts" is another misrepresentation. The church has made clear that steps have been taken.


If this were made clear in the statement, then you shouldn't really have anything to complain about since the Church had its moment of defense. The fact that this guy was willing to be interviewed about it is hardly O'Donnell's fault. As I said, if this becomes more of an issue in the media then the Church needs to counter with a spokesperson who is going to challenge this guy and his claims. That isn't O'Donnel's job.

All the signs of anti-Mormonism were there. He got belligerent about the rote and inaccurate gripes (blacks not allowed in the church until 1978? This is stuff you find on bad anti-Mormon websites) and when mitigating facts were pointed out he just abandoned it to move on to another. I don't understand why you feel it necessary to try to deny that this guy is an anti-Mormon.


I just hate the way Mormons keep using this descriptor as if it serves some kind of purpose. It is as if they just want to create a black list of names for well-poisoning. O'Donell is responding to the data the same way any other American would. Most Americans do not know about the priesthood ban, otherwise they'd be throwing their hands up in dishgust just the same. The thing is, we as apologists and critics have been over this issue so many times that I think we've become numb to the sensitive nature of it all. Apologists think it isn't racist because it was a revelation by God, whereas everyone else on the planet sees it for what it really was; a necessary Church response to Church growth and an expanding Civil Rights movement.

I disagree entirely.


Why? To non-LDS it doesn't make a bit of difference with respect to racism. If you deny blacks the priesthood, this is really no better than rejecting them from Church altogether, as this is racism in both instances. Until you operate from the perspective of a non-LDS looking at this from teh outside, you can't really appreciate how people feel about this. But you don't have to. The point is, this is how non-LDS feel. I can't think of a single non-LDS who is indifferent to this doctrine.

And Mormons know it. Which is why they'd prefer it never be mentioned.

Because it's a presidential campaign, not a fast and testi*-ony meeting.


Come on. Where do you find that qualification in LDS teaching, scripture, etc? Whatever happened to "every member a missionary"? When did that become, "every member a missionary except when he or she is running for office"? Mormons are commanded to bear their testimony frequently, especially when the opportunity arises and the audience is wide. Romney didn't only have the opportunity, but he was asked specifically to comment on his religion, and all he gives us is the usual platitudes you'd expect to hear from any Catholic or Jew. It seems he's a presidential candidate first, a Mormon second. That's one reason why he loses my respect.

Not really, but the shape of the testimony is nowhere legislated.


Don't make me call up Darth J. I'm sure he has a dozen conference talks at his fingertips, commanding members everywhere to bear their testimony with conviction and frequency. This is from D&C 84, I'm sure you're familiar with it:

For I will forgive you of your sins with this commandment—that you remain steadfast in your minds in solemnity and the spirit of prayer, in bearing dtestimony to all the world of those things which are communicated unto you. Therefore, ago ye into all the world; and unto whatsoever place ye cannot go ye shall send, that the testimony may go from you into all the world unto every creature.


Romney hasn't even come close to bearing a testimony. Why doesn't he follow the Book of Mormon teachings and bear it with conviction whatever the consequences (i.e. Abinadi)? BEcause he knows he would get lambasted for it, and then the Church would have to deal with explaining D&C 84:94-96:

wo unto that house, or that village or city that rejecteth you, or your words, or your testimony concerning me. Wo, I say again, unto that house, or that village or city that rejecteth you, or your words, or your testimony of me; For I, the Almighty, have laid my hands upon the nations, to scourge them for their wickedness.


It seems Romney isn't a very good Mormon. He should bear his testimony and let the spirit do its work. I mean isn't a testimomy to be had in the bearing of it? Doesn't the bearing of it bring the spirit to all those who hear it?
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_Kevin Graham
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Re: Mormon Meltdown on Facebook

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Oh, sorry.

Well, then Loyd owes Kevin an apology. ;-)


Instead, he just deleted me from his friend's list.

Oh well.
_Tobin
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Re: Mormon Meltdown on Facebook

Post by _Tobin »

Jason Bourne wrote:
Tobin wrote:Actually, I find the fact that Romney is a Mormon means it is absolutely fair game. If he is uncomfortable about answering questions about it, then I don't understand why he wants to run for president? I am very curious about what would have happened when Romney as president tried to enter the temple without his secret service detail. There are just so many interesting (read humorous) scenarios w/ a Mormon in the White House.
I think if there ever is a President Romney he will not be attending the temple at all for the duration of his term.
Nooooooo. You are ruining it for me. I had images of men in suits, sunglasses, and those little earphone dongles trying to look inconspicuous during the temple ceremony. Or better, President Romney going to visit someone each month for hometeaching. Now there would be a circus.
"You lack vision, but I see a place where people get on and off the freeway. On and off, off and on all day, all night.... Tire salons, automobile dealerships and wonderful, wonderful billboards reaching as far as the eye can see. My God, it'll be beautiful." -- Judge Doom
_Equality
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Re: Mormon Meltdown on Facebook

Post by _Equality »

Romney didn't only have the opportunity, but he was asked specifically to comment on his religion, and all he gives us is the usual platitudes you'd expect to hear from any Catholic or Jew.

Romney hasn't even come close to bearing a testimony. Why doesn't he follow the Book of Mormon teachings and bear it with conviction whatever the consequences (i.e. Abinadi)? BEcause he knows he would get lambasted for it, and then the Church would have to deal with explaining D&C 84:94-96


This is so true. I don't get why believing Mormons are backing Romney in such high numbers and with such fervor, and they didn't even give Huntsman a sideways glance. Romney is such a bad Mormon he denied the First Vision!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiQdIwUrejc
"I don't know that [God] has spoken to anyone since Moses in the bush, or perhaps some others." Can you imagine a Mormon getting up in testimony meeting and saying that? Wow. Even the Hinckster wasn't so embarrassed by Mormonism as Romney seems to be.
"The Church is authoritarian, tribal, provincial, and founded on a loosely biblical racist frontier sex cult."--Juggler Vain
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_Kevin Graham
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Re: Mormon Meltdown on Facebook

Post by _Kevin Graham »

Equality wrote:
Romney didn't only have the opportunity, but he was asked specifically to comment on his religion, and all he gives us is the usual platitudes you'd expect to hear from any Catholic or Jew.

Romney hasn't even come close to bearing a testimony. Why doesn't he follow the Book of Mormon teachings and bear it with conviction whatever the consequences (i.e. Abinadi)? BEcause he knows he would get lambasted for it, and then the Church would have to deal with explaining D&C 84:94-96


This is so true. I don't get why believing Mormons are backing Romney in such high numbers and with such fervor, and they didn't even give Huntsman a sideways glance. Romney is such a bad Mormon he denied the First Vision!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiQdIwUrejc
"I don't know that [God] has spoken to anyone since Moses in the bush, or perhaps some others." Can you imagine a Mormon getting up in testimony meeting and saying that? Wow. Even the Hinckster wasn't so embarrassed by Mormonism as Romney seems to be.


Wow. Nice find.

How do Mormons explain THIS one?

One thing I am starting to realize, from just reading Facebook comments, is that previously avowed Progressive Mormons are now starting to support Romney. Funny that. Just because he's Mormon they're willing to completely drop all their progressive views - which they defended so passionately for years - and adopt whatever Brother Romney says.
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_maklelan
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Re: Mormon Meltdown on Facebook

Post by _maklelan »

Jason Bourne wrote:I think if there ever is a President Romney he will not be attending the temple at all for the duration of his term.


Latter-day Saints who do security for the government have pointed out that the logistics preclude a Latter-day Saint president attending the temple.
Last edited by Guest on Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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